battery problems

[john jupiter]

You guys are like Dr. Wizard and Macgyver! Wow!

I'm gonna go with getting the duke running with the bridge diode i bought... Then ride her back to radio shack to get whatever parts and resistors etc to accurately test and diagnose the scr's and and replace whatever is needed to get the r/r unit working as well or better than stock, in the stock box.
Im sure the extra testing and diagnosis will generate some good info to the board and i dont mind learning a thing or two or three in the process.

So if i read right, in reference to hooking up the wiring on the bridge rectifier i just bought, the red wire from the alternator Goes on the positive, the two yellows on the ac terminals and the brown goes on the negative? Leaving the one red lead coming from the battery disconnected.
By dumb luck maybe my 75watt bulb will be perfect to draw some of the extra output.

I'll get whatever it takes from where ever to test and fix the original. Just need directions from you guys.

jj

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" So if i read right, in reference to hooking up the wiring on the bridge rectifier i just bought, the red wire from the alternator Goes on the positive, the two yellows on the ac terminals and the brown goes on the negative? Leaving the one red lead coming from the battery disconnected. "

____ Nooo, I'm afraid you didn't "read right". _ So seems you'll have to go over it again.
You have the two yellow-connections right, but the r.block's neg.terminal-post goes to the battery's grounding-point, (NOT the brown-wire !). _ And the r.block's pos.terminal-post is left unconnected (& should be covered-up), while the red alt.wire-lead directly connects to the red-wire from the battery (just as stock !).


" By dumb luck maybe my 75watt bulb will be perfect to draw some of the extra output. "

____ Probably so, if you ride over 5000-RPM... It's a 'dual-edged blade' , that which balances-out at higher RPM, will also overdraw at low-RPM.
The slight additional available-power due to running with (the now) STRAIGHT-rectification will only allow for perhaps 5 to 15w more average-wattage towards running the system-load. _ So your 75w.light will still overdraw around 30-watts, (near the stock charging-system's lights-on break-even RPM-point).

____ Keep us up on the steps you're taking !


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[john jupiter]

Yellow1 and yellow 2 hooked up to each respective ac terminal on bridge diode.
Negative terminal hooked up to a shared battery ground on the frame.
Red alternator wire hooked directly to positve lead from battery .
Positive terminal left unused.
brown wire left unused

Engine runs well!
horn now at full volume when idleing and headlight off.
When headlight on at idle horn inaudible, but will at about 2000-2500 rpm become louder again.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" Yellow1 and yellow 2 hooked up to each respective ac terminal on bridge diode.
Negative terminal hooked up to a shared battery ground on the frame.
Red alternator wire hooked directly to positve lead from battery .
Positive terminal left unused.
brown wire left unused "

____ Right, that's all correct !
__ With the two extra diodes, the unused pos.terminal taps the pair of alt.power-pulses that Ducati had chosen to ignore. _ This leaves other wiring possibilities to try-out if your regular riding-habits don't produce sufficient average-RPM to keep your battery well charged (with such a powerful head-light).
With both of the (other) two plain power-diodes supplying both normal alt.outputs to Ground, your charging-system now provides the same as the stock-rectifier except that the DC-juice is unregulated,, which means your charging-system's average power-output is potentially much stronger than stock, ([certainly !] with lights left off !). _ Therefore to keep your battery from getting (slowly) zapped, don't run at high-RPM over an hour with the lights off. _ As compared with the stock-rectifier, (with lights off), your system-voltage is (at least potentially) much stronger now !
So after a couple of hours of normal-riding (with a battery which had not been recently charged), be sure to then turn-on & run with the lights left running. _ (If the battery is already well charged, then start running lights soon after getting out on the road.)
You can get an idea of how the battery is coping by looking to see if it's fizzing very much, after a ride. _ If after most all rides you then see that your battery is fizz-bubbling like crazy (and especially if the sides of the battery feel very warm), your battery has then been getting overcharged !
With your system as it is now, I'm very sure that, (providing your battery was recently charged), a relatively short ride with the lights off will get your battery fizzing-up pretty-good.


" Engine runs well! "

____ Your system is now being (fully !) charged by both the primary & secondary alt.power-windings, and when the lights are off, that's then way too much charging-power (when above 3k-RPM). _ With just the ignition-system consuming power, you then only need the "primary" alt.winding to supply it's power.
You can now determine which yellow-wire is supplying the timed pulse of power (that's helpful to power-up the ign.coil), by separately disconnecting one yellow-alt.wire at a time from the r.block (after the battery has been disconnected while engine is running).
If neither yellow-wire will keep the engine firing with the battery then disconnected, then your alt.rotor is not properly phase-timed to the crankshaft.
You ought to find-out which yellow-wire is the primary-one, especially if your battery shows signs of continued over-charging.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[MotoMike]

I've given the RR schematic a fairly good look and I think I have it sorted. Bob could you take a look at it again and make sure the connections seem right to you. I think the write up can be done in about the size of a single page write up.

[john jupiter]

Ahh the engine now stays running when even the negative battery lead is disconnected..it only stalls out when one of the two yellow alt leads is disconnected.. Ive marked it, that is the primary wind right?

I did notice while engine running after battery ground was disconnected that my ignition indicator light got REALLY bright.

What supplies should I pick up at radio shack to test the original r/r? Should be interesting!

[DewCatTea-Bob]

By: MotoMike...
" Bob could you take a look at it again and make sure the connections seem right to you. "

____ I had done that before and only noticed very minor semi-errors, and now that I've done some colorizing to it there're mostly corrected,, all the external-connections to the Rect/Reg.unit were already correct.
The place where the two red-wires connect to the R/R.unit/box look as if their connection may be incorrectly-depicted because they (sneakily) don't actually make any electrical-connection to the box/unit's internals !


" I think the write up can be done in about the size of a single page write up. "

____ Whatever you've got for a write-up, I'm sure it will be worth posting in it's very-own new thread ! _ As something of the sort sure shouldn't be allowed to be left within any thread with an indirectly related topic-title, (just to eventually become lost within the many pages of mis-titled threads).
__ The colored diagram I've added is not yet worthy of being placed along-with the write-up, since the depicted pair of alt.stator-windings are incorrectly indicated similar to as if they were of a mere simple 'center-tapped transformer'-like arrangement.
I hope to correct that, when I get more time to work on it.


Fun-Cheers,
-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

By: john jupiter...
" Ahh the engine now stays running when even the negative battery lead is disconnected..

____ Good ! _ That thus means that your alt.rotor must be phase-timed with the ignition-timing quite well enough !


" it only stalls out when one of the two yellow alt leads is disconnected.. "

____ By that, I assume you must mean, that of the two yellow-alt.wires, there's only one of them which can keep the engine running,, while disconnecting the other one makes no difference.


" Ive marked it, that is the primary wind right? "

____ If you marked the yellow-wire which didn't fail to keep the engine firing, (when the other yellow-wire was disconnected), then yes, that would then-thus be the "primary" one ! _ As the "secondary" yellow-alt.wire should be completely dead at the time when the ignition needs it's required power. !
__ I should probably point-out that neither alt.winding is a 'primary' in the true-spirit/common-meaning of the word. _ Cuz the alt.rotor's particular installed inclination (in relation to the timing of the ignition), is what actually determines which of the two alt.windings becomes the 'prime' power-source (which has the capability to run the ignition).


" I did notice while engine running after battery ground was disconnected that my ignition indicator light got REALLY bright. "

____ That 'GENeral power-On' indicator-light (on top of the headlamp), brightened-up as it did because you also took away the battery's voltage-regulation effect, when you disconnected it's preset 6-volt power-level.
__ As battery's get old and lose their capacity, that v.regulation-effect will also become equally weaker (same as using a smaller [new] battery).


" What supplies should I pick up at radio shack to test the original r/r? Should be interesting! "

____ To-what-end do you wish to do your testing on it, (that you think "Should be interesting") ?
I think in order to save your stock-unit, you should first try to find a pair of new suitable (likely updated) replacement SCR-units...
I've now dug-up a w-c R/R.unit of my own and looked-over it's SCRs. _ They both have the same markings on them... First they were each (virtually)- water-marked with: "TR" , "DU2" , and the manufacturer's logo: "SILEC". _ Then over top of that, they were stamped with "0 0 1 6 0" (with the "1" barely visible).
Have you checked yours for such ? _ If so, what's marked on yours ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[MotoMike]

Bob

Ok. I noticed that you've painted the wire labeled Marone (brown) gray.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" I noticed that you've painted the wire labeled Marone (brown) gray "

____ Sorry about that, that's one of the changes I have yet to correct ! ...
The sw.program I was using didn't offer any better shade of brown than that used, which actually isn't pure "gray", as there were two shades of REAL gray to choose from. _ (That off-brownish/gray color I used does appear as a sort of brown when seen next to the offered gray choices !)
== [ UPDATE... I now see on my (other) PC's monitor that that color I used (for a shade of 'brown') does indeed look completely light-GRAY ! ... I will fix that before moving most all of the non-"battery problems" posts over-to their own thread.]
When I get-on another PC I have with a better program, I'll then be able to get it all fixed-up & post my completed diagram. _ At which point I'd be tempted to delete these side-postings and simply edit my post with my first-attempt at colorizing and substitute my improved version.
__ Also, I've been thinking of moving-out all the posts more concerning rectification & jj's issue, from this battery-thread to a new thread with an appropriate topic-title.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob