It's alive!!

[joe46ho]

This has been a lot of work to get accomplished in a few short months, but thats what you do when you have passion for something... building, restoring, repairing, resurrecting, riding, racing motorcycles...thats just my thing I guess. And a lot of fellow motoscrubs posters' thing too.... My dad has seen bits and pieces of what we have done so far on this duke, but Im saving the best for last, when its all done, we are going to just show up at his house with it I think... In case you havent caught any of my previous posts on it...This duke has not run in my lifetime (32 years) and this is/will be my brothers when its all finished, and he only vaguely remembers it running when he was a toddler so that means its been in the "old shed" since around 1975-1977 roughly. This is one of two also, once this is finished... The real work begins, this one was really nice when we started compared to the other duke we are restoring of my dads... a 1969 Mark III 350 Desmo. It was decided to do this one first because of the cost involved. The desmo was in much worse shape, we recently located (in georgia) a nice 350 engine (complete parts bike actually) So that will be the basis, the desmo head was in nice shape, but the cases where destroyed/un-useable... If anyone wants to see specific pics to help them in there restoration, let me know and I will post. Sometimes pics of other cycles are the best form of reference on a restoration/basket case type project like a lot of people on here may have...

I will try to work on putting together a photobucket slideshow or something soon, this doesnt scratch the surface on the pics i have taken so far, and will be taking more of course...

Joe

[MotoMike]

Joe

those are some drool worthy photos. I envy you the complete rebuild and wonder about a few things. Like where did you source the wheels? How about the alternator stator, will it be 12 volt? and what will you do for RR?
Did you have to replace many bearings in the engine? I am anxious to see it put together with all those polished pieces. Good luck and thanks for posting.

Mike

[john jupiter]

Awesome photos and build! Cant wait to see and hear more about your both projects.

[joe46ho]

Thanks john, and mike...

Mike, The wheels where actually in with my dad's "parts stash in the shed" The where removed from an Ossa, I do know that much. I believe a Stilleto, but I cant be positive. They are Akront Shouldered Alloy Rims, They had some pitting, and wherent perfect, but well worth using... The spokes/nipples came from buchanan's and are stainless. MY brother did the wheels (polishing for about 6 weeks lol, assembly, etc...) he found a nos front brake plate online, and as the rear hub fins where damaged, i found a replacement rear hub on ebay. The tires are Dunlop gold seal k 70 (a close vintage look tire, im installing the oem pirelli mt-53's on my 66 scr im restoring, but since this bike will actually "get ridden" those wont do on this one)

The stator is the stock 70w 6v unit, and I have the original reg/rec. for it. I had bought a 12v reg to use on it. but decided We will use the stock setup, with the exception of this, there will be a hidden toggle switch that will change the flow of current from the stock stator to the reg/rec. over to run through a bridge rectifier (mentioned in a previous post) This will probably only be done when riding for extended periods with the lights on. If the factory reg gives us any trouble though, i have a spare, and if both prove to be junk I have another 6v universal regulator that I havent tried yet, but i know will work fine, just wont look original similar to a honda ct90 i think, (same one phil @ road/race sells) I tried to talk my brother into running a 12v system, but he doesnt want to, plus there really isnt a need to on this particular scr i dont think...

Bearings where the least of the engine build i would say..lol. Basically if you can imagine the scr dismantled as far as you possibly can, every single piece out, cataloged, inspected, replaced, reconditioned...thats what this got, the only one single thing that I or my brother didnt do was replace the rod, true the crank. Which Ironically enough I have all the facilities to do now, but my brother was a little impatient about getting that done (and at the time, didnt realize how much it was going to cost to sub-out to syds) $850 later or so (dont know exact amt bc he didnt tell me) the crank came back... Most of that cost was the rod itself, but still, way to pricey. I have built some insane engines at the fab shop I used to work at (drag racing oriented mostly) and even the top shelf companies (sonny bryant, callies, carillo, cola, bme, eagle, scat) sell an ENTIRE SET OF 8 rods, for a little more (or way less depending on the grade you buy) than what they sell one rod for, ive heard all the arguments and they are BS, If I could get a few people together to "group-buy" some rods from falicon (10 is the min. order) I could buy the same exact rods that syds sells, for $270-$300 each, instead of the $600 plus they charge, I just dont have the 2,700-3,000 to foot the bill upfront or I would have already done it. Marking up something to make money is perfectly fine, but over double the price ? Thats gouging (all my opinion of course) im sure ill catch flak for saying that, but I really dont care, lol...
After that rant though, the answer to the orig. question is yes every single bearing on the entire bike was replaced regardless of whether it needed it or not, Im kind of the king of overkill in some ways but there is no way I wanted to do any of this a 2nd time... I also spent A LOT of time shimming the crank perfectly, shimming the bevel gears perfectly, checking the gear contacts patterns over and over etc...making sure nothing was left to chance.

Joe

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" The stator is the stock 70w 6v unit, and I have the original reg/rec. for it. I had bought a 12v reg to use on it. but decided We will use the stock setup, with the exception of this, there will be a hidden toggle switch that will change the flow of current from the stock stator to the reg/rec. over to run through a bridge rectifier (mentioned in a previous post) This will probably only be done when riding for extended periods with the lights on.
I tried to talk my brother into running a 12v system, but he doesnt want to, plus there really isnt a need to on this particular scr i dont think... "

____ Well then since the intended lighting will still remain 6-volt, there's then no need to modify the stock charging-system,, cuz I know of no high-power 6v.headlight ya could install !
The stock 6-volt 30w.bulb or 35w.sealed-beam can be replaced with 45-watt versions, and that additional 10-watt load is no problem for the stock w-c charging-system !
So the only real need for the toggle & bridge-rectifier would be if excessive time is spent idling with lights left turned-on.

____ Lots of very-nice work done, by the way !


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[joe46ho]

Bob,

Thanks, did you not get my p.m. i sent you by the way ? It was a question about rotor phasing on the 70 watt alternator rotor, its still sitting in my outbox and ive never had that happen before so im assuming you didnt get it...

Joe

[MotoMike]

Joe
thanks much for the discussion on your progress so far. It is something to see it done so right by a regular "joe" so to speak. and if Bob provides info on the timing of the wide case rotor, I'd sure like to be privy to that discussion.

regards,
mike

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" did you not get my p.m. i sent you by the way ?
its still sitting in my outbox and ive never had that happen before so im assuming you didnt get it "

____ I just read your PM, (in-box was full).


" It was a question about rotor phasing on the 70 watt alternator rotor, .. "

____ It was not of off-topic subject-matter for this w.site, so you should've just gone-ahead & posted it here.
__ The 450 is the easiest model to get set right since it's static-ign.timing is to be set at 0-degrees at TDC.
The timing-mark/line on the alt.rotor is supposed to be aligned a certain number of degrees in relation to TDC when pressing the rotor back onto the crankshaft, but I've found in some cases that the factory-placed line-mark is not always consistently placed in relation to the location-points of the magnets. _ Therefore the factory's logic for the exact placement is in question. _ And that's why I always tell everyone, (who's Duke had been running okay), to first make a scribe-mark on the rotor-face nearEST to the center of the shaft's TDC-notch, so that they won't loose the REAL factory-timing, BEFORE pulling-off the rotor !
My own logic figures that the alternator should be producing it's peak-power just prior to the creation of the static-timed ign.spark, so that the ign.coil then gets saturated -(powered-up) as fully as possible. - (Anyone have any contrary thoughts on that ?)
So in the case of the 450, ya can simply place the rotor so that it's magnets are center-aligned over the center-points of the stator-poles (at any of the six possible alignment-points [that they WISH to align at] ).
So when placing the rotor onto the shaft, let the rotor self-draw itself into it's-own preferred location and leave it there while you check that the crankshaft is right at TDC, then lightly help the rotor be sure it's magnets are most happily/directly center-aligned (with the stator's pole-centers),, and THEN, torque-down the rotor onto the shaft.
That will then leave the alternator's peak-power production timing coincidingly-matched to the point when the 450 ign.coil needs to produce it's spark during kick-starting, (which can be of use when the battery happens to not be at it's best).
But getting it just-right to a pin-point is not necessary, so (since the rotor is not made of transparent-aluminum), it's best to error towards slightly advanced, cuz the battery will take a moment to allow the system-voltage to fall back-down (as the alt.power-peak falls-off), and, somebody one-day may wish to set the static-timing with slightly more advance. _ So retarding the crankshaft 2 to 5 degrees (clockwise in relation to the rotor-face) ought be more useful.
__ If anything doesn't seem to be adding-up right to you when you go to do the job, check back with any concerns before locking-down the rotor onto it's shaft.
Also, take-note and let us know exactly what position your rotor's factory timing-mark/line ends-up at when your rotor is finally matched-up to the stator (so that it can be compared to others). _ And by the way, also take note of how that factory-placed timing-mark/line looks to line-up with whatever is closest on the opposite side (of the rotor-face).


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[joe46ho]

Bob, thanks for the info...

I probably wont be able to work on the engine again till friday, but will post some more pics and info after im further along, my brother and i are hoping to have the scr "rolling" this weekend.

Joe

[Mark]

Not any where near the project Joe has /had going on but I love it anyway. It needs the seat done and a paint done and a boat load of other things but as stated at the begining of this thread. It's alive!!