identify a 450 scrambler/jupiter

[3564cam]

Hi,
would anyone be kind enough to tell me the differences between a series 1 and series 2 450 srambler?Mine is a 72 french bike and am intrigued to know which one it is

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ I myself don't know a whole lot about many details of Duc.singles made for other than the USA, but I think Eldert and/or Jon may better help you.
I'm not even sure that any 450-Scramblers were actually named 'Jupiter' for outside the U.S., as I had thought that Berliner (the US.importer) had chosen that name.
__ Here in the U.S., the 450-Jupiter models were no longer imported after 1970, and when we once again started getting the 450-Scramblers for 1974, they were by then definitely the newer series-type ! _ So I don't really know exactly what year the switch-over (from series-1 to series-2) actually took place. _ Hopefully, you'll be able to help confirm whether that change occurred as early as 1972 !
Are you really sure that your 450 is actually a 1972 model-year version ? _ Can you tell us it's motor-number ?
If yours actually is of that year, then it seems that it might ought be of the later series, as the 450-motors were only made (so far as I know) from 1968 to 1975. _ Their crankshafts were beefed-up by 1972, and certainly before 1974 the main-bearings & their motor-cases also gained some added heft ! _ An easy way to tell if you indeed have the later-type of motor-cases, is merely by checking the spacing-distance between the upper-most/major-pair of case-bolts, found directly in front & rear of the cylinder-base. _ As the newer-type of 450-cases have those two bolt-locations spread-apart by an extra 10mm. _ So please let us know what you measure (center-to-center) for that spacing between those two case-bolts.
__ In any case, before anyone can offer you a fairly firm answer, we would certainly like to see a picture of your particular 450-model. _ So could you please post at least one picture of it, here ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[Eldert]

that easy , the type 2 scrambler has later type front forks with a double sided single leading 180 mm front brake

Eldert

[ajleone]

There are actually quite a few differences between a Series I and II Jupiter - The front forks and DLS front brakes are one. The headlight ears, instruments, side boxes, front fender, and seat are also different. Here is a pic of mine. It is original, except for the DLS front brakes and Borrani rims that are from a series II Jupiter. My Jupiter is a 1970 and the one that I harvested the wheels from was a 1973 I think.
Tony

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Now that Eldert & Tony have gone-ahead & pretty-much reviewed all the rest of the more obvious differences between the earlier & later 450 series-types,, hopefully, Steve will still have enough motivation remaining to still bother with helping us all determine (at least)- about WHEN the series-types switch-over likely took place, (late 1972, or sometime in 1973).
__ So Steve, if you'll be so helpful as to tell us how you're sure that yours is indeed a 1972-model, and what it's motor-number is, and of course also which of the fore-mentioned series-features your 450 has,, that should certainly be of use to the rest of us 450-owners !

____ Concerning the two pictures posted by Eldert & Tony...
While Eldert's 450-pic appears (on MY monitor) to be about as dark as Jim's frame-pix (in the frame-thread), it's still bright enough to see what it is, (unlike Eldert's frame-picture [in the frame-thread]).
However Tony's 450-pic, (like most others), appears quite normal (on my monitor) ! _ And the only (slight!) darkness-issue concerning Tony's picture, seems to be only due to his Duke/(bike) being placed within the shade while the background is sunlight-lightened (thus having somewhat over-tasked his camera from seeing the 450 very well) !
__ Just thought I'd make this added picture-brightness observation, because I've already raised it (elsewhere) recently.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[3564cam]

Hi all,
Well it would seem that I have a series 1 using the piccies and tips you kindly provided.My bike has black headlamp ears,round drum shaped airbox,black headlamp,flat steel mudguard stays,ribbed seat,SLS front brake,steel rims.It does.however,have instrument in moulded plastic housing as well as a bar joining the two handlebars like a 450 R/t.It has "Tommaselli"stamped on it.
I went to a bike show in Belgium last month and saw another 40 scrambler,same as mine but with Verlichi clamps but still with black headlamp,not later all chrome headlamp.I suspect this is not original and has been changed but it prompted me to ask you all the question.
The reason I can date my bike is due to the fact that French bikes where sold new with a riveted ID plate on the head stock and to the engine.The headstock is stamped in the normal way and can be seen if you remove the plate.The engine plate is fixed to the selector box cover.The motor is stamped in the normal way.See attached piccies of the plates.It clearly states frame and motor number,date and model as well as weights.This is the only way of proving a matching number bike.They are porper metal plates not like the Berliner foils fitted on ealrier bikes.
I hope this is usefull information to you

[Ventodue]

Yup, 1972 makes it a series 1. My bike's not far from yours: frame no. DM450S 465644, engine no. 459768. Here on the Motogiro d'Italia a few years back ...


The second series bikes came in in 1973 - that's manufacturing year 1973, i.e actually beginning in September 1972 when the factory started work again after the August close-down. ("Confused? You will be ...")

The 'Bible' for these bikes is Massimo' Clarkes, "Ducati Scrambler, Desmo e Mark 3" (ISBN 88-7911-144-2). Unfortunately, seems hard to find these days (and no, you can't have mine ...)


P.s. And no, they weren't called 'Jupiters' outside the US - and there only for 1970, I think.

Ciao

Craig

[Eldert]

all i can add engine wise is that after 450 engine number 453509 the righthand main bearing got increased fom a
6206 to a 6306 . this bearing is 3 mm wider ( and 10 mm bigger O.D. ) then the one it replaced . to make room for the wider bearing the bottombevel gear recieved a flat on the outside diam . otherwise the gear would hit the innerrace of the bearing .

Eldert

[3564cam]

One last question,can you get a 450 in orange as well as yellow?Mine is yellow but also really like the orange,Mmmmmm

[Ventodue]

One last question,can you get a 450 in orange as well as yellow? Mine is yellow but also really like the orange,Mmmmmm

Well, you can "get" one in any color you like, of course - you've just got to ask your painter! But I guess you mean, "Did they come in any other color than yellow?""; in which case the answer would seem to be, "No, not for the 450 Series 1". The 350 Series 1 came in a reddish orange, however. And the Series 2 bikes came in a wide range of colors - black, white, green, blue etc .

For more, go: http://www.ducatiscrambler.com/infotecniche/colore.htm

Ciao

Craig