lets talk about timing wheels

[Bevel bob]

Leave the screw alone.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

By: MotoMike...
" parts manual shows a grub screw in the end of the crank at that end. does it need to be removed? "

____ No, not really, (as it's usually recessed at-least 3 threads inward, and-thus not an obstacle).



" what size bolt and thread? "

____ A metric-bolt 50 to 70mm long with 8 x 1.25mm thread, will screw-in to the crankshaft-end about 3 to 6 turns.
__ Here's what else I've come-up with (in correct-order) to first be placed onto the fully-threaded 8mm.bolt (before inserting into the crank-end)...
A large fender-washer; your degree-wheel; another large fender-washer; a 1.25x8mm nut; another 1.25x8mm nut; a tube-spacer -(at least 20mm long -[max.length depends on length of your bolt], with 8mm inner-diameter by 12 to 16mm outer-diameter).
__ Let me know if ya don't readily-realize why all these add-on pieces are extra helpful for the job.


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[MotoMike]

" parts manual shows a grub screw in the end of the crank at that end. does it need to be removed? "

____ No, (as it's usually recessed at least 3 threads inward).


" what size bolt and thread? "

____ A metric-bolt 50 to 70mm long with 8 x 1.25mm thread, will screw-in to the crankshaft-end about 3 to 6 turns.
__ Here's what else I've come-up with (in correct-order) to first be placed on the bolt (before inserting into the crank-end)...
A large fender-washer; your degree-wheel; another fender-washer; a 1.25x8mm nut; another 1.25x8mm nut; a tube-spacer -(at least 20mm long -[max.length depends on length of your bolt], with 8mm inner-diameter by 12 to 16mm outer-diameter).
__ Let me know if ya don't understand why all these add-on parts are heplful for this job.


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

Bob

thanks for the kind words.

I think I'm hip to the scene. I was thinking of useing a threaded spacer rather than a tube spacer, the ones that are basically a 2 inch tall nut. Then I could lightly tighten the spacer against the crank end after the bolt was threaded in to provide support and hold it in place. And I think I have some rubber washers in the drawers that could be sandwiched between the fender washers.

Always making headway. Working on a piston stop. Got a spark plug that I removed the insulator from planning on tapping it to match a brass bolt once I find one in my parts drawers. Want a brass bolt so I can more easily drill it out to let the air escape and brass is a little easier against the piston.

Mike

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" I was thinking of useing a threaded spacer rather than a tube spacer, the ones that are basically a 2 inch tall nut. "

____ Well that would certainly take the job of both the spacer-tube and the nut intended to lock it against the crank-tip, (just didn't mention such because it's usually harder to find).


" Then I could lightly tighten the spacer against the crank end after the bolt was threaded in to provide support and hold it in place. "

____ That's good except that ya need to tighten the nut/spacer-nut more than just "lightly", if ya wish to use the degree-wheel set-up to also turn-over the crankshaft with.


" And I think I have some rubber washers in the drawers that could be sandwiched between the fender washers. "

____ That would tend to defeat the intended purpose of the fender-washers...
The large washers are meant for getting a good grasp of the degree-wheel, so that once the degree-wheel has been dialed-in (to line-up with your pointer) and locked in-place (with it's dedicated nut), ya can then use the wheel to turn the crankshaft back & forth somewhat.

____ So ya see as I had intended, the bolt is first snugged into the crank-tip, then the nut (next to the spacer) is well tightened to lock-it-up against the crankshaft,, then your degree-wheel is next dialed-in so as to indicate TDC (depending on the chosen location of your chosen pointer set-up), and then easily locked in place, or unlocked as needed, for better adjustment of the wheel's position (relative to the crankshaft).
__ As for 'pointer', I've often used a piece of stiff wire (such as a reshaped paper-clip), to easily take the place of a factory-pointer (as seen in some workshop-manuals),, but when I worked at a DUCATI-shop, I had made a pointer-bar for myself...
I took a clutch-adjuster cover and placed it against a 1/8th" thick piece of 2" by 6" aluminum sheet-metal, using the cover as a guide to drill two holes through the aluminum-plate so that it could then be bolted onto any primary-cover (in place of it's adjuster-cover). _ Then once with a center-line drawn across it's front (to line-up with the degree-lines on my degree-wheel), I was always set & ready to go, (instead of having to mess with bending-up any pieces of wire, each time).
May not be worth-it for owners of only one DUKE, though.


DUKE-Cheers,
-Bob

[MotoMike]

I was thinking that the rubber washers once snugged against the wheel would allow you to move it to get it dialed in and would hold that adjustment reliably and that I could use the protruding threaded hex spacer with an open end wrench to turn the engine a bit.

[jbcollier]

Yes, the grub screw has to be removed to fit some of the timing tools. My V2 one any way.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

By: MotoMike...
" I was thinking that the rubber washers once snugged against the wheel would allow you to move it to get it dialed in and would hold that adjustment reliably "

____ I really don't know, as I've never tried that. _ I suppose that if the rubber is not too thick or soft, that it could then be trusted okay.


" and that I could use the protruding threaded hex spacer with an open end wrench to turn the engine a bit. "

____ Now this is concerning something that I had really meant to add before, but forgot to include ! ...
__ The use of open-ends (or other preset-sized tools) actually will cause some frustration due to their ever so slightly loose grasp on the nut.
I had meant to add that for turning-over the motor completely, use of a vise-grip on the nut is preferred, (also over using the wheel), because ya can then better control the crank from slightly over-shooting the desired degree-wheel setting. _ (Yes, if the nut is not turned too fast counter-clockwise, ya can go through a full 4-cycle [without the spark-plug installed!], so long as the locking-nut is tightened sufficiently.)


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[MotoMike]

well the reason I planned on using the threaded hex spacer to turn the engine was that I started out planning to use one of the down loadable timing wheels and paste it onto a plastic disc which would not handle the double duty of being used to nudge the engine over.

Does anyone have a preference on which ready made aluminum disc to use and why?

didn't wait to get a brass bolt for my piston stop. tapped out my plug body last night for a 3/8" bolt. filed a grove along the inside of the threads to make a passage for air to escape and drilled a hole in the plug body for air to escape. should make rolling the engine over when finding TDC easier. I'll take a picture of it.

[LaceyDucati]

Mike

If your disc is not tight enough or strong enough to use it to turn the engine over, you could just remove the clutch cover & use the engine nut to turn it over (no spacers needed). A piece of bent welding wire bent to shape makes a perfect pointer & is easily adjusted. If you bend a loop at one end for a 6mm screw & place repair washers either side, you can then screw it to the casing securely without fear of marking the cases. If the disc is not pegged & securely fixed to the crank then it will probably move if you use it to turn the engine. It's a good rule after any measurments have been taken, to always check the disc TDC again to ensure nothing has moved.

If you want to strobe the engine you will need a stiff well mounted disc ( & ideally pegged). You will will also need to be quick or engineer a seal onto the spacer, things can get a bit messy otherwise! If you do check your timing with a strobe, you will most likely discover that all the chat about ignition advance specs is all pretty irrelavent. As all that Ducati writes in it's manuels is not necessarily in line with reality!

If you do print a timing disc off line, check it is in proportion (ie, perfectly round). I only mention this, as in a past life I was making a new control panel schematic drawiing on a copier & the poor accuracy meant that by the time I got accross from one side of the panel to the other, nothing lined up (fine top to bottom). Lesson learnt, alway's expect the unexpected, saves constantly being disapointed!

Best Wishes Nigel

[MotoMike]

thanks Nigel. I doubt I'll go to the extreme of a strobe rig.

I have sized a downloaded wheel to fit on a standard computer CD. It appears to be a bit on the small side for resolution but it assures that it is perfectly round. will probably have to up size the disc a bit to get a comfortable spacing between each degree mark. but won't know till I try it.

Mike