condor A350

[sidelevers]

Hi people.
newbie person saying hello and resting my weary kick start leg, Im hoping to find a good workshop manual for my recent condor A350 purchase but in the mean time can anyone tell me how many degrees advanced my ignition spark should be static, when I get this thing running there is a persistent misfire and erratic idle that I cant fix, ive tried a new coil condenser and points, carb is clean as a whistle but now I have started monkeying with the timing I have lost my way.
thanks folks.

[Nick]

If you want it to idle well, put a modern carb on there like a Mikuni.

Fully retarded timing will be just a few degrees before TDC. After trying it like that, keep advancing the timing very slightly until you get excessive kick-back on starting or notice detonation, then back it off a bit. Or, whenever it starts running pretty good, stop messing with it. Works for me.

Of course, a degree wheel on the crank, TDC finder (plug stop) and a manual would be ideal, as would a strobe light, a nice, well-equipped and heated garage, etc. But in the real world the above method will get you close enough for street riding.

Check the valve clearance while you're at it. By 'clean as a whistle' you mean you've completely stripped the carb, soaked it in lacquer thinner (not solvent, lacquer thinner) for an hour or so and then blown it out with compressed air, right?

[sidelevers]

OK Nick thanks for getting back, I like the idea of a good solid idle so will look at a carb change, which mikuni do you suggest?
In the mean time I will strip carb again (kill me now) im fairly sure the thing is clean though. After another attempt to start the bike last night I found that although I was getting a spark at the plug I never got any sign of kick back at any position of the points base plate which I adjusted by small increments from one extreme to the other , I even tried a blast of ether but still no life.
The compression pressure is good which discounts sticky valves etc and the strange thing is when it starts it can run well on a fast idle then suddenly dies like ive switched it off, sometimes with a very small backfire.
I would like to solve this problem before my kicking leg becomes so developed I can only walk in small circles.

[Rick]

sidelevers(???)
There's nothing wrong with Dellorto carburetors- the idle circuits, air and fuel, can get plugged- if you can't see a mist coming from the idle circuit outlet on the engine side of the slide when you blow whatever clearer you're using through it, then you don't have an idle circuit.
I watched a Youtube video on Condors once and remember the owner saying the Condor had rubber vibration dampers between the engine and frame. So, you'll need to be sure the electrical system is grounded to the frame and the engine- a wire from the battery to the frame won't provide a complete circuit to the ignition system.
You should be able to use ignition timing specs from a widecase 350 as a starting point- as a military bike the Condor may have a milder camshaft than Ducati used, but standard timing should be close.
It's tempting to keep kicking, but if it won't start after a few attempts your time would be better spent troubleshooting.
Good luck.
Rick

[Ventodue]

It's tempting to keep kicking, but if it won't start after a few attempts your time would be better spent troubleshooting.

Very good advice. This is a Ducati, not a bloody Triumph! . If it doesn't go after a few prods, stop and find the problem.

I can't find specific timing advice for the Condor. But it's a low compression engine (8.2:1)*, similar to the contemporary 250 Stada (and, indeed, the engine components most likely came from Spain, altho' the engines themselves were assembled in Switzerland). FWIW, the Strada used 8-10° static, rising to 34-36° at 3000 rpm.

Alternatively, the Bologna 250/350 engines use 5-8° static advance, rising to 33-36° at 3000 rpm. So IMO (FWIW), set the thing at 8° static.

* Which probably explains why it's not kicking back.

But I suspect the carb - and that includes checking for no air leaks around the intake and that the exhaust is properly tightened up. The carb should be a VHB (possibly G?) 27 AD, btw. Now, these carbs do suffer from worn slides which will prevent you getting an idle. Post a photo if you can.

Also as Nick suggests, check your valve clearances.

HTH

Craig

[sidelevers]

Thanks for info, the plot thickens , after checking idle circuit again and no joy other than a backfire through exhaust I look at checking ignition timing again and found the cam operating the points seems to have somehow moved in relation to the crank position so to get the points to begin opening on compression stroke TDC I would have to turn points baseplate 90 degrees to get things happening when they should. I really doubted myself at that point so took valve covers off to make sure I was definitely on the compression stroke
I still don't have a manual for this so can anyone tell me what might be amiss, are the points driven by the base of the bevel drive arrangement and maybe something has broken or came adrift. looking under the points baseplate the advance mech seems in good order free of corrosion and firmly fixed in place (with ducati stamped on).
Ill look again tomorrow just to make sure sure.
Tony.

[DBDBrian]

Hi Tony, As they say a picture is worth a thousand words, this is from a 175/200 Ducati manual, I assume a Condor would be the same.
Brian


Brian

[Nick]

Bike on center stand, transmission in top gear - spark plug removed - gently open the points with a screwdriver - insert piece of cellophane - close points - tug lightly on cellophane with one hand - insert pencil or wooden chopstick into plug hole with other hand - use foot to gently nudge rear wheel to slowly rotate engine - points should release cellophane just before piston reaches TDC on compression.

It's an engine, they're all the same: spark at more or less the right time and gas, and they run. No mystery.

You can bypass the carb altogether by simply squirting a small amount of fuel into the carb throat using an aerosol spray bottle. If the engine fires and then dies, you've got a fuel supply problem; if it still won't fire it's the ignition.

You can use this same method to troubleshoot a suspected fuel pump failure on a car or any other gas engine as well.

[oh2jxg]

Hi

Initial advance is between 5-8 degrees

Instruction to set timing can be found at
http://www.benvanhelden.nl/Condorclub/c ... rA350.html

Regards
Jari

[Ventodue]

You did well to find that, Jari!

All I got yesterday - and again today - was ....