1965 ducati narrow case

[flanker]

Yep Bob that is why I am waiting to print it out! I'll probably just put it on a flash drive like you suggest when all is said and done!

Yeah anything that was unable to be chromed was polished! I sort of let that up to them they seemed pretty knowledgable. Who am I to tell this guys what can or can't be chromed they have been in the same site for 50 plus years, ha ha. But I have to say it was a great experience, I think I'm going to read up on the process (albeit, a bit late).

When I first started the project I knew my stock rectifier was toast so I bought one from I think guzzino??? Its a modern reproduction not a stock one.

Best, Rob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= flanker ...
" that is why I am waiting to print it out! "

____ Right, so that you'll then have a good/quality-colored version for 'keeps'. _ But your-own printer ought make sufficient copies of the most pertinent diagrams posted so far, so that you can currently have an adequate guide to follow for getting started with your wiring-project.



" anything that was unable to be chromed was polished! "

____ Since you didn't really confirm whether your alum.fork-parts were actually 'chromed' or rather merely highly-polished, I'm left to assume that those parts really were chrome-plated.



" I sort of let that up to them they seemed pretty knowledgable. Who am I to tell this guys what can or can't be chromed they have been in the same site for 50 plus years, "

____ If we had happened to have this discussion back before the '90's, I then would've been even more surprised that the likes of such an establishment didn't warn you that chrome-plating will likely end-up peeling-loose off-of alum.surfaces, (if not first plated with copper or nickel or something-else plated in-between which more strongly adheres to alum.alloys).
However these-days, I'd suppose that some-odd modern pretreatment-method has been developed so that getting chrome-plating to remain bonded directly to alum.surfaces has finally become sufficiently dependable. - (Otherwise, you might begin to see 'bubbling' of the chrome-plating, within three years [of normal seasonal whether exposure].)



" I think I'm going to read up on the process "

____ Then please let us know what pertinent info you find on the topic, as I'm sure others would like to know if my brought-up concern still has any relevance anymore these-days.



" I knew my stock rectifier was toast "

____ What made you think that exactly,, did you discover & see the normally-found burnt wrapper around it's internal wire-wound resistor, or what ?
Or was your R/R.black-box unit rather just suffering from the wear & tear of prior mishandling ?


" so I bought one from I think guzzino??? Its a modern reproduction not a stock one. "

____ I'm somewhat surprised to learn that there might possibly be any such replacement-unit that's specifically made to be a 'reproduction' that's fully compatible with DUCATI's unique grounded dual-winding alt.stator !
Has it been designed & constructed to function & appear same as the original n-c.type black-box, or is it rather just merely a modern electronic R/R.unit (with ordinary generic appearance) that doesn't physically look like stock but-yet is still electrically compatible (so as to be able to straight-forwardly 'replace' DUCATI's original black-box on n-c.Monza-models) ??
Whichever the case may be, how about posting a picture of it ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[graeme]

Regarding chrome plating aluminium,
I was told that the alloy would become brittle and prone to cracking.
Anyone else heard this?
Graeme

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= graeme ...
" I was told that the alloy would become brittle and prone to cracking. "

____ Well Graeme, I understand your posted-wording to mean that when bare aluminum-alloy pieces are directly 'plated' with standard chrome-plating, that it's the alum.alloy-pieces themselves which can become "brittle and prone to cracking".
So if my clarified wording still conveys the very-same meaning as that which you had actually intended to state with your-own posted wording, (as I [for one] found your wording actually clear enough to do in the first place),, then that assumed passed-along conveyed-story -(rumor) strikes me as being 'third-hand'. _ That meaning to imply that I-myself find that story to have likely been somewhat twisted-around somewhere along the line during the passing-forth of that (questionable) tale. _ Cuz I'd be more apt to believe that it's rather the chrome-plating that would be most-likely prone to suffer such detrimental consequences, (as once the plating eventually 'bubbles-up' and warps-away & off-of the alum.alloy-surfaces, the chrome is then known to next crack-up & flake-off [or peel-off, depending-on plating-layer thickness], away-from the plated alum.alloy-pieces !).
__ I for-one have never heard anything about any alum.alloy being so adversely affected by chrome-plating,, and-so I waited this long to post my-own thoughts, so as to allow a fair chance for anyone-else to respond to your inquiry as to whether any of us have ever heard-tale of the-like (as you had).
(Unfortunately, it seems that the vast-majority of our 430+ members don't much care to bother-with participating in our forum-communications,, otherwise we may've expected at-least a couple other response-posts to've already acknowledged your inquiry-post.)


Questionable-Cheers,
-Bob

[Rick]

There is some debate about it, but 'hydrogen embrittlement' is often associated with the chrome plating process- mostly in the preparation for plating, do a web search for 'hydrogen embrittlement' and you can read all day.
For me, plating aluminum ranks alongside bead blasting as not worth the risk. Here's what the FAA has ruled:
http://www.aviationperformanceproducts. ... ome-it.cfm
Not an issue for a fork cover, but plating aluminum has a bad reputation.
Rick

[graeme]

Hello Bob,
Yes I heard that the alloy becomes weak and is prone to crack.
I first heard this when a fellow chrome plated the rear wheel clamps for a bevel twin.
The 2 per side alloy pieces that clamp to the swing arm via the axle nuts.
Both cracked in use some short time after they were in service.
Hope this makes sense.

Graeme

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= graeme ...
" Yes I heard that the alloy becomes weak and is prone to crack. "

____ OK,, as it turns-out, I was surely correct that you had indeed meant that it was actually the alum.alloy itself that suffers from having been chrome-plated, and-but was actually wrong to've suspected that your heard-tale was third-handed miscommunication ! ...
__ While I had never before heard-of chrome-plated aluminum-itself suffering from any certain resulted harmful consequences,, I now gather from Rick's informative post that it's quite probably indeed not actually the layer of chrome-plate affixed-coating itself that may possibly cause any harm to the alum.alloy, but-rather the related preceding preparation-treatment of the plating-process that's really-actually what the real cause is for any stressed metal-fatigue possibly caused to the alum.alloy !
__ I don't have any understanding of how any prep.treatment (other than heat-treatment) could possibly cause an alloy to become brittle, but it's now seeming to be apparently plausible.


Enlightened-Cheers,
-Bob

[Mistertee43]

I am new so please excuse my new-guy etiquette. I too am in the process of doing a 1965 Ducati Monza 250 resurrection and have been following this thread. If I am following correctly Flanker may have purchased the same Regulator/Rectifier that I purchased. I have not installed my Regulator/Rectifier yet because I am still navigating through the stock wiring diagram to see if I can do what I am planning. Better yet, how I can make it fit my plan. DewCatTea-Bob, I have included a photo from guizzino and below is the item description of the Regulator/Rectifier. I would like to hear your thoughts on this item.


6v Single Phase Regulator / Rectifier

6 Volt regulator/rectifier for bikes with permanent magnet single phase alternators. Great modern up grade for older bikes with separate regulator and rectifiers. Unit measures 3x2" and is good for charging systems up to 200 watts. Comes with detailed instructions and a wiring diagram. NOTE: When used on Ducati singles with 3 wires (2-yellow + 1-red) the red wire is not used. Can be used on 6 volt bikes with negative or positive grounds.

http://www.guzzino.com/6vsiphrere.html

I have a few questions myself, is it proper to add them to this thread or start a new thread?

Thanks,
Alfredo

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Welcome as our newest member (#431), Alfredo !
(I just found your first-post and 'approved' it for all to view !)


[quote= Mistertee43 ...
" I too am in the process of doing a 1965 Ducati Monza 250 resurrection and have been following this thread. If I am following correctly Flanker may have purchased the same Regulator/Rectifier that I purchased. "

____ That possibly being the case, then you were making a fair decision to post your related concerns within this thread (instead of creating another/new thread).



" I have not installed my Regulator/Rectifier yet because I am still navigating through the stock wiring diagram to see if I can do what I am planning. Better yet, how I can make it fit my plan. "

____ I'd need to learn more about your particular charging-system plan before being able to advise whether or not your acquired R/R.unit would actually function correctly as you'd expect.
And since it seems that you are-not intending to employ an Electrex-system yourself, I believe your significantly differing electrical-project ought be worthy of it's-own/new thread.



" I have included a photo from guizzino and below is the item description of the Regulator/Rectifier. I would like to hear your thoughts on this item. "

____ Well I sure do have some thoughts to relate about that ! ...
__ Firstly, thanks for the included picture and related link !
If your presented picture of the R/R.unit you got (from the same seller) is indeed the very-same previously mentioned R/R.unit (that's been said to supposedly be a 'reproduction' of DUCATI's original black-box), then I'm fairly disappointed that my doubting-concern about it's actual existence in reality turns-out to have been well justified,, as that presented R/R.unit is quite certainly NOT any 'reproduction', neither physically nor electrically like the stock-unit at-all -(meaning to declare that there's no similarity whatsoever !) !!
__ And while I wouldn't outwardly argue against the value of a true-reproduction (of DUCATI's original R/R.black-box) being worth the seller's 160$-price,, I'm sorry to declare that anyone who has paid that incredibly extortionate price, was RIPPED-off by at-least a 100-bucks !
In addition, that R/R.unit is of the very-common (and cheaply acquired) universal-type that's not made for straightforward compatibility with Ducati's n-c.type/grounded alt.stator circuits ! _ (So it seems that the seller is merely out to rob their customers without any considerate/solicitous care for hawking them a possibly incorrect product, [apparently somewhat deceptively preying upon any uninformed-sorts].)
____ Next to respond to part of the description-wording (that's shown in dark-blue lettering)...



" NOTE: When used on Ducati singles with 3 wires (2-yellow + 1-red) the red wire is not used. "

____ They (like many others) don't seem to understand the unusual workings of Ducati's unique dual-type stator-windings (which are meant to only be dual half-wave rectified !), that were never intended to-be 'full-wave' rectified (as that common-type R/R.unit is designed to do).
So for wide-case alt.stators with the common*/red-wire -(* a 'common-line', [not a normal 'center-tap' as assumed by most uninformed-sorts]), connection of such an ordinary std.R/R.unit will properly-function as normally expected only when connected-up to either-one of the two yellow-wires and the red-wire, (thus efficiently full-wave rectifying just one power-bank of the dual-alt.stator-winding). _ Of-which this full-wave connection-scheme will provide pretty-much the same-average power-output wattage as the stock dual half-wave setup's pair of power-banks (except without it's inherent self-regulation ability [that's expected by Ducati's unique charging-system]).
However, connection to just the two yellow-wires can possibly provide increased available amperage during lower-RPMs, (depending-on your-load's resistance-level),, but unless ya expect to do extensive low-RPM riding with headlight left turned-on, I otherwise wouldn't recommend this particular (full-wave)-rectification connection-scheme (that unnaturally-forces the dual stator-windings into a 'series' operation).



" I have a few questions myself, is it proper to add them to this thread or start a new thread? "

____ Glad you asked ! ...
If you still have anything else which has also already been brought-up in this thread,, then it would be fitting to include further related discussion of it, here within this thread as well. _ However otherwise, it's fairly advisable for you to create a new/separate thread for anything else that's not directly related ! _ In other-words, for instance if you have anymore to say specifically about that ordinary aftermarket R/R.unit itself, then include that here,, but if you wish to learn how it might possibly be used to work with your remaining/existing stock DUCATI charging-system parts, then that offshoot topic-matter would inevitably lead to significant diversion that's certainly worthy of it's-own thread ! _ So if you care to tangent-off from that R/R.unit to such a removed degree, (thus rather more-so pertinently covering it's connection-possibilities in preference),, then please create another thread for more specific dedication to such off-shooting tangent-topics.


Duke-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[flanker]

Wow its very cool to come back after a forced absence and see so many posts. I had to work a week straight then get myall stock pantah 1981 500sl going for a friends birthday ride up the coast. Basically my pantah electrics needed a massive going over, and at the end my starter button right handed switch was in need of a rebuild of sorts... Its the only part I could not seem to find, but after some attention it starts up like new and the ride was sublime. Anyway, I'll stop digressing from the singles posts.

Bob last I can recall I needed to supply you with some pics of my idiot lights and the headlamp. Finally trekked down to the painter and snapped off a few, I'll include them below.

Yes I bought the Electrix full system and just got a timing tool from the guy in Australia, it looks really well made (i'll post pics). I'm pretty committed to making the full system work! I'm sure it will bring some intriguing posts! Sadly I'm waiting for the vintage break guy and the painter.... But I'd like to start making the harness. After going through the pantah... I took every electrical piece off it and tested them twice. It took a few days but I'm now way more confident to tackle the single.

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