1965 ducati narrow case

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DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: 1965 ducati narrow case

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:37 am

[quote= flanker ...
" In the latest modification of the diagram for electrex ignition.... We have the black/white wire commenting to the four prong DUAL ignition switch (not a twin switch (like I have)) so that the "kill" switch is not engaged and the battery is, when the ignition is in the on position. Is this correct? "

____ It seems you do indeed have your deduction correct (providing that your stated-wording actually means to relate same-as the carefully-chosen wording of my interpretation of what I think you probably meant to state. _ Next follows my underlined interpretation of your stated-wording (with clarified-wording in blue-lettering)...
In the modification of the diagram (presented on page-2) for Electrex-ignition... We have the black/white wire connecting to the four-terminal DUAL key-switch, (not a twin switch [like the Monza has]), so that the "kill" switch is not closed and the battery-circuit is closed, when the key-switch is in the on-position. _ Now this specific wording is rather-CERTAINLY correct ! _ So I hope that more-particular wording still says exactly the same as you had actually meant. (?)
__ I've included a double-diagram showing the depicted switch, indicating it switched into both of it's switch-position settings.
So, as you should thus now be able to confirm,, the specific switch-position which you've chosen to describe, is obviously represented by the right-side switch-diagram.



____ Do you not yet have any thoughts concerning the notion of using a circuit-RELAY to work with your stock/Monza-type key-switch for controlling the Electrix-ign.circuit ?
__ I've also included a diagram showing the circuit-scheme of the type of electromechanical-relay you could make-use of.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
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PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

flanker
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Re: 1965 ducati narrow case

Postby flanker » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:05 am

Well Bob I contacted the person selling the magneto 4 prong shift on ebay and they said they would drop it 20$, so even with their benevolence, I think the relay is the way to go! I've ordered the relay you have suggested. My switch is old, but on further inspection there is no reason to suggest it won't work, as I erroneously suggested before!! I will study the relay diagram you have posted!!! It takes me a little time to understand... but in the end I get it. True your posts are carefully chosen! I need to read some a few times. I will try to be more succinct in the future and use the quote buttons etc... as meant to. thx for the correction. So in closing I'm going for the relay option! Robert

DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: 1965 ducati narrow case

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:05 am

[quote= flanker ...
" they said they would drop it 20$, so even with their benevolence, I think the relay is the way to go! "

____ That key-switch is probably worth 50-bucks to someone who really feels the need to acquire one, but otherwise it's pretty-much as old-junk that ought be avoided for more than it's really functionally-worth. _ And considering the relative cost of a brand-new relay-unit, that over-priced switch is certainly-not the way to go !



" I've ordered the relay you have suggested. "

____ You shouldn't always be so quick to jump-the-gun on ordering things without confirmation of what your best choice might be ! _ If you had paid due attention to my particular wording, then you ought-to have realized that I really hadn't "suggested" actually purchasing that particular relay-unit ! _ That-one was hastily found after running a brief eBay-search for a 'ground-circuit relay',, and of all the related search-results listed on the 1st.page, that-one was the first example I came-across which looked-the-part, for an acceptable price ! _ So I grabbed it's address-link and posted it, merely-just to provide you with an example of what I was trying to alert you of.
I'd need to see the internal circuit-scheme of that particular relay, in order to determine if it will actually do what-all you need a relay-unit to do. _ But with that relay-unit's lack of wire-leads, it's fairly doubtful that it's circuit-scheme includes all the relay-circuitry shown in the relay-diagrams which I've posted (on this page).
__ Now if you had bothered to mention sooner that you had become interested in the relay-solution, then I would've indeed suggested that you actually shop for one of the type of relay-units listed on the page at this link... http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... y&_sacat=0 , as most-all of those listed type of relays should include all the internal-circuitry that I'd recommend for your wiring-scheme project.
The main difference (between those-type and a plain/ordinary relay-unit), is that with such a circuit-relay's 'normally-open' circuit, you can then enjoy a 'warning-light' which actually does indeed legitimately indicate whether the operating-status of the ign.system-itself is actually in active-mode, (unlike the falsely-labeled "Ignition Warning" circuit depicted on the originally posted 'Blackie diagram') !



" My switch is old, but on further inspection there is no reason to suggest it won't work, "

____ It should be easy enough to test-out it's ability to adequately conduct near-around 5-amps (between each of it's two pairs of switch/circuit-contacts) without developing any notable heat.



" I will study the relay diagram you have posted!!! "

____ No need to study that very much, as it's merely a diagram I found on the net. _ The only noteworthy change I made to it, is the addition of the ground-symbol that's shown connected to the 'common' terminal (that's normally connected to the battery-output). _ I felt the need to add that (third) ground-symbol, so as to help indicate how that circuit-relay's scheme will work for your nonstandard-type ign.circuit issue.
__ Please ask any questions you may have concerning how such a relay-scheme should be circuit-wired within your wiring-project's system-scheme.
I've now also posted another relay-diagram version which ought appear more simplified for you. _ So it should be easier for you to keep stored in your mind's-eye.



" It takes me a little time to understand... but in the end I get it. "

____ After you "get it", then when you review everything over again, it then all makes clear-sense (and ya wonder how ya didn't get it right-off the bat in the first-place) !



" True your posts are carefully chosen! "

____ I don't really think that I carefully-choose 'posts', however I do strive to make-sure that my post-wording is carefully chosen (so as to not be unclear). _ However that thoughtful endeavor unfortunately leads to longer sentences which taxes the reader's concentration, thus-then possibly causing his thought-process to be the source of any fogginess (rather than my stated-wording being unclear).



" I will try to be more succinct in the future and use the quote buttons etc... as meant to. "

____ That would be considerate for others, so that they then don't have-to search-through a lot of unsorted duplication in hopes of finding any & all fresh post-wording left mixed-in within your single-quote-type posts.



" thx for the correction. "

____ If you're referring-to the alternately-worded confirmation of your deduced summary of the dual-circuit key-switch function-operations, then of-course you're welcome.
Since your deduction/summary was-not really wrong, I thus didn't really provide any outright "correction".
__ If you happen to have any more/other such interpreted-deductions which you also find similar questionable-doubt of,, then your idea of having your understanding stated in your-own words, may possibly be worth similar summarization by you again.



" I'm going for the relay option! "

____ So then do you already realize the disadvantage of a relay in comparison with the type of oddish key-switch that your ign.system requires ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

UPDATE: I've now added a more detailed version of the desired relay internal-scheme.
If you'd like to see a diagram showing this type of SPDT-relay connected-up to the intended related-circuits of your wiring-scheme project,, then let me know which of the three relay-diagram versions -(1st; 2nd; or, this last-one) I've posted (all presented on this-page) best suits your desire to see it included within it's intended scheme-diagram, and then I'll use your picked-choice depicted connected-up within it's related wiring-scheme for your particular electrical-system project.
-Bob
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

DewCatTea-Bob
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Electrex Wiring-scheme Diagram

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:05 am

DewCatTea-Bob wrote:If you'd like to see a diagram showing this type of SPDT-relay connected-up to the intended related-circuits of your wiring-scheme project,, then let me know which of the three relay-diagram versions -(1st; 2nd; or, this last-one) I've posted (all presented on this-page) best suits your desire to see it included within it's intended scheme-diagram, and then I'll use your picked-choice depicted connected-up within it's related wiring-scheme for your particular electrical-system project.
____ Well Robert, due-to your extended lack of active-attention to your thread,, you've now lost your chance to pick your-choice of relay-diagrams for depiction within the Electrex circuit-wiring scheme-diagram, as I was left to pick the choice myself (before completely losing my interest in ever getting-around to putting-together such an extensive diagram).
____ Since you've indicated that you intend to retain use of the stock Monza-type key-switch, I've also included it's depiction as-well within this latest presented master scheme-diagram (which is shown indicated in the OFF-mode). _ As the diagram obvious indicates,, with the key-switch left in off-mode, the 'relay' remains defaulted to it's 'normally-closed' circuit which automatically* keeps the Electrex-ign.circuit killed (* with no power-juice required from the battery).
However when the key-switch is set to it's ON-mode, then not-only will the relay's ignition-circuit switch 'open' and become ungrounded & un-killed,, but-also, the SPDT.relay's temp.alternate-circuit (that's simultaneously switched to ground) will then ground the "Ignition Warning" indicator-bulb, as well ! _ So-thus not-only will that activated warning-indicator's steadily-lit light-output indicate that the battery's voltage-level is sufficient to operate the 12v.relay,, but-also, ASSUREDLY-indicate that the ign.system is thus-then no-longer killed and-thus rather quite-certainly successfully-switched to ACTIVATED-mode, as well ! _ And now this-way, the 'Ignition Warning' indicator really IS indeed correctly labeled !
(Note that the red-wire from the key-switch to the Ignition Warning indicator need be no thicker than 18-gauge.)
__ Other notes concerning this latest diagram... for one, the stock key-switch's twin-type OFF/ON-circuits are taken advantage-of by using them to keep the battery (normally) disconnected from the R/R.unit, so as to prevent the battery from trickle-discharging -('bleeding') through the rectifier-circuit whenever the key-switch is 'off'. _ And-also, by having the battery-current and charging-current separately fed-through the key-switch's two-pairs of switch-contacts, thusly increases contact-conduction efficiency (so there's less apt to be any heat-buildup which tends to rob some of the power from getting to the down-line loads). _ Furthermore, the two individual power-sources are carried through two separate 16-gauge wires as far as possible (to the furthest connection-point of power-dispersion at the fuse-array location), thusly keeping any single wire from carrying the entire current-capacity drawn by all the active system-loads.
And concerning all the various indicated wire-colors,, I haven't bothered to change all of the prior-presented colors, and-so I-myself don't necessarily agree with any displayed wire-color shown in this (non finalized) diagram.


Continuing-Cheers,
DCT-Bob
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PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

flanker
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Re: 1965 ducati narrow case

Postby flanker » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:28 pm

Wow Bob appreciate the diagram! I was just logging on to say the SPDT relay was my choice. I did not know it was time sensitive so please accept my apology for not getting back to the thread earlier. thx again Rob

DewCatTea-Bob
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Electrex Wiring-scheme Diagram for Monza

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:28 pm

[quote= flanker ...
" the SPDT relay was my choice. "

____ All three posted relay-diagram examples represent the same 'Single-Pole/Double-Throw' type of relay ! _ I had offered for you to pick whichever version suited you best for insertion within the main-diagram, only because it was-then a possible option,, but of-course it didn't really much matter which relay-diagram ended-up being the one picked.



" I did not know it was time sensitive "

____ Actually, it wasn't really. _ I had added the choice-offer on Thursday and later noticed that you were back here by Saturday-noon but still hadn't posted any choice. _ So after Saturday-eve had passed, I then figured that you weren't caring enough to bother with picking any relay-diagram choice. _ And since I had then reached a point in time when I was feeling like playing-around with the diagrams, I thus decided to go-ahead & make the most logical choice myself (all on my-own, without your input).



____ Have you yet acquired any of your project's supplies such-as the wiring or relay, etc. ?
If the particular relay you first acquire happens to a common SPST.type,, you could still make use of it, perhaps rather for flashing your headlight (whenever activating your horn-button).
Do you have a horn for your project ? _ If so, is it an extra-powerful/high-amperage component ?
____ Concerning 'idiot-lights' / warning-indicators employed by Duke-models...
Both the n-c & w-c headlamp-models contain the same type of red-colored high-beam warning-lamp which depends-on it's physical ground-circuit. _ (The-likes of which could be suitable for use with the Electrex charge-indicator circuit.)
__ While the w-c.headlamps have a clear-colored 'general' -(power-ON) indicator-light which rather has independent -(non self-grounded) circuit-connections,, the n-c.headlamps instead employ the same, but-rather for a white-colored charging-status indicator-light. _ These type of light-bulb connection-circuitry are compatible with the indicted 'Ignition Warning' circuit which I've depicted in that latest master-diagram.
But the stock n-c.headlamp-setup only has just one of those compatible type of bulb-holders (that's originally intended for the charging-status indicator-light). _ However since the Electrix charge-light indicator-circuit can be connected-up to a pre-grounded indicator-lamp, that circumstance thus allows for using the stock charging-status indicator-lamp setup rather for the 'Ignition Warning' light-circuit.
So all this means you have to include another idiot-light that's similar to the high-beam warning-lamp.
__ So have you yet considered what you'll use for the Electrex charge-indicator circuit ? _ Or did the Electrex-kit include an indicator-lamp setup ? - (I'd expect that they would've included a duel-colored LED.lamp which would only glow green-light just when the battery is receiving charging-current, and rather glow red-light whenever the battery is discharging.)
If not, then you could possibly opt to go-without the stock HB.idiot-light and instead use that high-beam warning-lamp rather for the Electrex charge-circuit's indicator-light.
However the Monza-headlamps have separate locations for three indicator-lamps, so I'd suggest making use of all three.
The third indicator-location is seen oppositely-arranged from the high-beam warning-lamp and appears identical except for being green-colored (instead of red), and it's supposed purpose is to be a parking-light warning-indicator (that's expected to be lit-up by the rather remotely located parking-light bulb [that's attached to the top/back-side of the headlight-reflector]).
__ So it seems you may still have some duly-related contemplation in-store to sort-out what-all you prefer to do with all your various warning-light indicator options.


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

flanker
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Re: 1965 ducati narrow case

Postby flanker » Sun May 03, 2015 7:36 pm

Wow thx for all this info bob!!! Ive been running around getting all the pieces for the bike brakes, wheels, etc... that I have not gotten the electrical supplies yet, but that is coming this week!! Really of the whole project the electrical is the one I'm most interested in tackling, as I really have very little experience...

Yep I already bought an extra powerful high amp horn

The electrex did not come with any indicator-lamp set up... I purchased a few new ones w a 12 volt light in them and I was going to use those. But yes I really have a few decisions to make. This week I'm dropping everything at the painter and them its front fork rebuild and electrics!! I will reply more to your individual questions in your last post this week. Robert

flanker
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Re: 1965 ducati narrow case

Postby flanker » Sun May 03, 2015 8:56 pm


DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: 1965 ducati narrow case

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon May 04, 2015 2:36 pm

[quote= flanker ...
" I already bought an extra powerful high amp horn "

____ Quite often such horns have trouble drawing enough current through std.type wiring-circuits to be able to fully blast-out their sound-report. _ So if you really intend to employ such a high-current demanding horn,, then the std.horn-circuit depicted in all the diagrams posted so-far, would need to be modified for possible use with a horn-relay.



" I purchased a few new ones w a 12 volt light in them and I was going to use those. "

____ Are they the physically-grounded type, or do they each rather have twin-pigtail wiring (for universal connection) ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

DewCatTea-Bob
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Near SE side of Lake Michigan

Re: 1965 ducati narrow case

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon May 04, 2015 2:47 pm

[quote= flanker ...
" is this relay appropriate? "

____ That SPDT.relay appears to indeed be the type you could make best use of, (and it's amperage-capacity certainly is in excess of your particular requirements). _ However it's included socket with pigtail-wiring may add to it's expense, unnecessarily.


Befitting-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob


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