1965 ducati narrow case

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Sam ...
" I did interpretate incorrectly what you were saying
I picked that up as the charging light which is not connected. "

____ That's what I was left to guess you had possibly done, since that circuit wasn't shown connected to any warning-light yet.
I've modified the original diagram so-that that charging-light circuit is now shown connected to an indicator-lamp.
__ In addition (and more importantly), the modified-diagram also now depicts fusing-circuits shown where they ought be electrically-located. - Mainly, the MAIN-fuse (which ought be rated 30-amps) located between battery & ground,, and-also the secondary-fuses located after the key-switch, as well.
Ducati only employed just one fuse to cover both the horn & brake-light circuits, and I don't disagree that that's sufficient, but I've indicated separated fuses for those two circuits only because it was easier to modify the existing drawing that way. _ However I think if I were ever to bother with having a front brake-switch, I'd then rather prefer to have it's circuit separately fused (from the rear brake-switch & horn), just so as to cut-down trouble-shooting (in the event that the brake-light fuse ever actually blew-out).
__ I didn't bother to alter the Blackie-diagram's wire-coloring for all the non-Electrex wiring so as to be made compliant with Ducati's-own stock wire-coloring,, but I still disagree with much of the indicated wire-coloring, as most of the (non-Electrex) wire-colors seem to have been randomly chosen without any logical rhyme-or-reason. _ (Perhaps D.Blackie had his mind conditioned to prefer an established system-wiring color-code of some-odd Jap.bike or other non-Ducati bike-wiring scheme. [?])
____ If anyone has any questions concerning my modifications to the original diagram, then please ask !



" As for the ignition warning that would be a simple illumination showing the circuit is live when the ignition is switched on. "

____ Circuited as shown,, that's certainly true, merely concerning the ign.switch itself ! _ However that warning-light is-not shown circuited to be able to tell whether-or-not the ign.system it-self is actually in it's activated-state, (rather only that it ought to be) !
The particular way in which that warning/indicator-light is shown circuited, it can only indicate that the battery has been successfully switched-on into the load-system.
On w-c.models,, that indicator-light/circuit is referred-to as the 'GENERAL' indicator, which means to inform that the main* electrical-system is activated into general/standard operating-mode, (* and no-longer merely-just the parking-light mode alone).
So as presently-shown circuited, that indicator-light ought rather be labeled as 'battery-status'.
__ To rewire it's circuit so that it's then actually worthy of it's stated labeling,, might be possible, depending-on what the 'Black/White' wire's actual purpose is.



" that was some statemnet you made there!! "

____ Not sure which statement you're meaning to refer-to,, but once I've signed-off on my posts, I've by then usually taken care to've made-sure that I've left wording which can't be misinterpreted (too awfully much, at-least).


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
DCT-Bob

[flanker]

I've modified the original diagram so-that that charging-light circuit is now shown connected to an indicator-lamp.
__ In addition (and more importantly), the modified-diagram also now depicts fusing-circuits shown where they ought be electrically-located. - Mainly, the MAIN-fuse (which ought be rated 30-amps) located between battery & ground,, and-also the secondary-fuses located after the key-switch, as well.
Ducati only employed just one fuse to cover both the horn & brake-light circuits, and I don't disagree that that's sufficient, but I've indicated separated fuses for those two circuits only because it was easier to modify the existing drawing that way. _ However I think if I were ever to bother with having a front brake-switch, I'd then rather prefer to have it's circuit separately fused (from the rear brake-switch & horn), just so as to cut-down trouble-shooting (in the event that the brake-light fuse ever actually blew-out).
__ I didn't bother to alter the Blackie-diagram's wire-coloring for all the non-Electrex wiring so as to be made compliant with Ducati's-own stock wire-coloring,, but I still disagree with much of the indicated wire-coloring, as most of the (non-Electrex) wire-colors seem to have been randomly chosen without any logical rhyme-or-reason. _ (Perhaps D.Blackie had his mind conditioned to prefer an established system-wiring color-code of some-odd Jap.bike or other non-Ducati bike-wiring scheme. [?])
____ If anyone has any questions concerning my modifications to the original diagram, then please ask !

Thx so much for the new diagram!!!!!!!! I'll use it when i get all the supplies. I haven't been on line in a few days.... basically instead of just doing the ignition system I 've removed everything from the frame and I'm starting from scratch, I just could not be another rider who tacks on things as I go. Im sending the frame for powder coat and starting to source all my parts I need. You guys may not like this, but I got a square take and Its ok, I didn't like the round ones either. So I bought a really expensive metal jellymold. I know its not the correct one but I have always really liked it!!! I'll check back soon with updates and questions..... I'm really enjoying the forum the lively conversation is great. Robert

[flanker]

I recently put the Electrex flywheel/stator/rectifier on my narrow case 250. For the wiring I just use two toggle switches, one for lights, one for ignition. There are plenty of small 12V batteries out there that'll work fine. I found a scooter headlight bulb that (sort of) fit the stock headlight lens and it throws out plenty of light. For a brake light you can use an old Triumph/BSA front brake cable that has the brake light switch in the cable. There are also modern scooter/bike parts that'll do the job just fine, or use the stock brake light setup.

Anyway, I'm very happy with the system. However, I've saved the old flywheel/stator for any future owners that might be deranged enough to want to resurrect the stock Ducati electrical system. (You'll note, however, that most of those types seldom ride their bikes.)

Back in the seventies I rode my then rusty and unrestored 250 MkIII all around the Venice area. I not only rode the bike to U.C.L.A. almost daily, after school I strapped my toolbox on the seat and rode it around Marina Del Rey where I worked as a marine engine mechanic. Too much fun!

The rectifier and toggles are mounted on an aluminum plate under the seat - see pic

The bike also looks a bit better these days...

Very cool! Venice is still really good Ive lived here for a long time and motorcycling is def part of the community!!! Any photos from those days?

Im happy to hear the electrex is working out.... actually relieved!

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= flanker ...
" Thx so much for the new diagram!!!!!!!! I'll use it when i get all the supplies. "

____ I felt like playing-around with it a little merely-just to show a couple of the things which I felt needed to be altered. _ It's still certainly not fully straightened-out to be perfectly-suited for your particular Monza-electrical redo project. _ And-also there's still the matter of working-out exactly how the depicted 4-terminal key-switch is actually supposed to be able to control the ign.system-status and whether the stock/Monza key-switch can properly handle whatever the required circuit-task actually is.
__ I'll be glad to help you figure-out how to best combine the aftermarket-system's wiring with the stock/Monza-wiring, if you intend to keep closely loyal to the original/Ducati-wiring color-code.
Do you already have a colorized copy of the Monza electrical-system wiring-scheme to follow ?


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Sam]

[quote= flanker ...
" Thx so much for the new diagram!!!!!!!! I'll use it when i get all the supplies. "

____ I felt like playing-around with it a little merely-just to show a couple of the things which I felt needed to be altered. _ It's still certainly not fully straightened-out to be perfectly-suited for your particular Monza-electrical redo project. _ And-also there's still the matter of working-out exactly how the depicted 4-terminal key-switch is actually supposed to be able to control the ign.system-status and whether the stock/Monza key-switch can properly handle whatever the required circuit-task actually is.
__ I'll be glad to help you figure-out how to best combine the aftermarket-system's wiring with the stock/Monza-wiring, if you intend to keep closely loyal to the original/Ducati-wiring color-code.
Do you already have a colorized copy of the Monza electrical-system wiring-scheme to follow ?


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

The credit should be to Derek Blakie for supplying the original diagram, the only change is the addition of three fuse symbols and the originators name being removed, you did your best to pick holes in the suppied schematic Bob but thats the best you can come up with. Why not supply your own "superior" diagram instead of taking credit for someone elses work!? which I see as a fair and honest request a chance to get your colouring pencils out.

Sam

[flanker]

[quote= flanker ...
" Thx so much for the new diagram!!!!!!!! I'll use it when i get all the supplies. "

____ I felt like playing-around with it a little merely-just to show a couple of the things which I felt needed to be altered. _ It's still certainly not fully straightened-out to be perfectly-suited for your particular Monza-electrical redo project. _ And-also there's still the matter of working-out exactly how the depicted 4-terminal key-switch is actually supposed to be able to control the ign.system-status and whether the stock/Monza key-switch can properly handle whatever the required circuit-task actually is.
__ I'll be glad to help you figure-out how to best combine the aftermarket-system's wiring with the stock/Monza-wiring, if you intend to keep closely loyal to the original/Ducati-wiring color-code.
Do you already have a colorized copy of the Monza electrical-system wiring-scheme to follow ?


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

The credit should be to Derek Blakie for supplying the original diagram, the only change is the addition of three fuse symbols and the originators name being removed, you did your best to pick holes in the suppied schematic Bob but thats the best you can come up with. Why not supply your own "superior" diagram instead of taking credit for someone elses work!? which I see as a fair and honest request a chance to get your colouring pencils out.

Sam

yes i do intend to keep closely loyal to the color code! no doubt in my mind, I'm fully committed. you bring up a tough question. the 4 terminal electric switch. it seems that was used for a year or 2. my bike s a 65 250 monza that I think had the round headlight and round tank right b4 they switched to square... I have the original switch but i wanted to replace it. online its difficult to locate. yes I have several of the original proper color codes. I just got a few of the old manuals yesterday in the mail. its not colored but the wires are labeled in black and white... I wonder if I am going to have to use the old switch with troubles me a bit. The old key is brilliant! R

[flanker]

[quote= flanker ...
" Thx so much for the new diagram!!!!!!!! I'll use it when i get all the supplies. "

____ I felt like playing-around with it a little merely-just to show a couple of the things which I felt needed to be altered. _ It's still certainly not fully straightened-out to be perfectly-suited for your particular Monza-electrical redo project. _ And-also there's still the matter of working-out exactly how the depicted 4-terminal key-switch is actually supposed to be able to control the ign.system-status and whether the stock/Monza key-switch can properly handle whatever the required circuit-task actually is.
__ I'll be glad to help you figure-out how to best combine the aftermarket-system's wiring with the stock/Monza-wiring, if you intend to keep closely loyal to the original/Ducati-wiring color-code.
Do you already have a colorized copy of the Monza electrical-system wiring-scheme to follow ?


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

I have also ordered all the in line fuses that you wrote into the diagram

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Sam ...
" The credit should be to Derek Blakie for supplying the original diagram, "

____ The-credit from what, Sam ? _ I'm sure D.Blackie still retains all due kudos for his original-diagram ! _ (And he ought-not be criticized for his-depiction of the Electrix-system wiring-scheme.)
In-fact, he and yourself ought be thanked for initiating the steps that have led to the bringing-up of the worthy concerns which I've brought-forth to discussion.



" the only change is the addition of three fuse symbols and the originators name being removed, "

____ That you've only noticed just that particular change seems fairly consistent with your previously apparent level of attention to obvious detail,, and of-course it would-not have been very appropriate to have left the D.Blackie-name intact and-thus allow him to possibly be credited/blamed for any positive/negative-change that I've made to the diagram's scheme !
__ Since you-yourself seem headstrong that the Blackie-scheme (which you've stated you used) ought to've been left alone as-is,, then perhaps it might be poetic-justice if the red-wire/circuit spanning between the Electrix-R/R.unit and your battery happens to develop a ground-short. _ Then the result of such a happenstance on your related wire-harnessing, ought thusly more-likely have you whistling a different tune afterwards.



" you did your best to pick holes in the suppied schematic "

____ I wonder who-else might have the same sense of reasoning which could agree that my actual intended purpose for my comments (on the non-Electrix sections of the diagram's scheme) was mainly to scrutinize any oversight-details just to "pick holes" within the good-intention works of a well-meaning stranger (of whom, I certainly should have nothing at-all to hold against) ?
It's rather common for me to realize seeming-oversights in the works of others, (even Ducati's),, and if my actual-purpose was to dig-up criticizable details (to diminish the credibility of the Blackie-diagram), then I could've included a number of nitpicks I've also noticed left within it.



" but thats the best you can come up with. "

____ That's rather presumptuous,, as it ought be apparent to most that my intention was to show the original/Blackie-scheme with some suggested MODIFICATIONS, (and not provide an ultimate expert diagram in place of it) !



" Why not supply your own "superior" diagram "

____ I might possibly become inclined to do-so, but first I'd have-to learn how the Electrex-ign.system is activated/deactivated before it would be at-all worthwhile to complete !



" instead of taking credit for someone elses work!? "

____ Seems like a far-reaching stretch to've interpreted anything I've posted as actually "taking credit" for anyone else's work, as it ought be fairly apparent that I-myself have actually taken nothing for credit (other than perhaps my very-own scheme-modifications) !!
Have you not noticed the post-Title of all my related posts ? - (Evidently not.)



" which I see as a fair and honest request a chance to get your colouring pencils out. "

__ Ha,ha,, chuckle,chuckle.
More clever thought-work !


Joyous-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= flanker ...
" yes i do intend to keep closely loyal to the color code! "

____ I trust you actually mean the DUCATI color-code !?
__ Unfortunately I-myself don't much agree with Ducati's n-c.wiring color-code as it was rather cheap ! - (For one example, the only difference between the two,black-wires running-back to the tail-lamp, was that the taillight-wire was 18-gauge and the brake-light's was 16-gauge.) _ And-so I always preferred adopting the w-c.color-code (which has the taillight-wire colored 'yellow').
There are a number of such noteworthy differences, that it will be a trying-decision for you to choose between n-c.loyalty & w-c.logic.
Since you are-not intending to keep your '65-Monza near 100% originally-correct, then I'd suggest using the w-c.Ducati-wiring color-code, (which avoids much overuse of mere BLACK-colored wiring !).



" you bring up a tough question. the 4 terminal electric switch. it seems that was used for a year or 2. "

____ All the battery-powered Monza/Sebring/GT/Mach-I models used the same-type of double-circuit twin-{OFF\off / ON\on}-switch (which 'opens' both it's circuits by default) ! _ However the similar double-circuit dual-{on\OFF / off\ON}-switch (which has one of it's circuits rather 'closed' by default), was used on most magneto-powered Duke-models with hybrid magneto/battery-powered load-systems (like that of the '66-Scr & M.Jr models).
So such double-circuit key-switches were used for well-over two years !
__ What needs to be determined is whether the Electrix-ign.system requires the twin-type or dual-type double-switch.
If the Electrix-ign.switch-circuit needs to become grounded in order for it's ignition to switch-into it's activated-status, then your stock twin-circuit type key-switch will perform the expected function.
However if that Electrix-circuit is always 'live' by default, and-so thus-then rather needs to be grounded so as to 'kill' it's otherwise always activated-state,, then you'd require the dual-circuit type key-switch (in order to be able to ground-out & shut-off the ign.power [with that-switch's rather-unique normally-closed switch-circuit]).
__ Since Sam was good-enough to tell us merely that the Electrix-system only-comes with just a mere 'kill-switch' (which we're still also left uninformed as to exactly how that*switch functions, [* particularly opposed to the unclarified switch-circuitry of the 4-terminal switch depicted within the so-lacking Blackie-diagram]), perhaps fellow-member Nick could tell us exactly how the included kill-switch actually performs it's function.
Otherwise it seems we'd be left to ASSUME that the supplied 'kill-switch' operates same-as common/ordinary kill-switches do - (by grounding-out the produced power so that there's then nothing left available to create a spark with). _ However I would-not think that such electronic-circuits necessarily also need function that same way.
So-then you may have to find-out from your Electrix-supplier whether their system's so-called 'kill-switch' actually kills, or rather activates it's ign.system.
So anyhow,, if killing is actually how the included kill-switch works, then you'd need to acquire the dual-type key-switch, (if you really want a KEY-activatable ign.switch) !
And assuming so, I'd then recommend a key-switch like those used by the 1973 350-ROAD model.



" my bike s a 65 250 monza that I think had the round headlight and round tank "

____ That would indeed be correct for the '65 model-year !



" I have the original switch but i wanted to replace it. "

____ Why, do you think it's too worn-out ?



" yes I have several of the original proper color codes. "

____ Do you mean colored-diagrams of the n-c.wiring-scheme, (as I assume) ?



" I have also ordered all the in line fuses that you wrote into the diagram "

____ It's of-course expected that they'll never need to actually perform their function, but better that they get blown rather than suffer any consequence due-to their absence !
The main-fuse must have a higher amperage-rating than all the others, in order for the secondary-fuses to perform their main-function of narrowing-down the responsible trouble-spot (for trouble-shooting the actual source of whatever the particular overdrawing circuit) !
So if the main-fuse is 30-amp, then the fuse covering the headlight should be 15 ~ 25 amps and the horn-fuse 12 ~ 20 amps, with the brake-light circuit being fused for 5 to 15 amps, (or similar amp.ratings near there about, [which ought be near-around half the standard amp.ratings of the stock 6v.system]).


Fun-Cheers,
-Bob

[flanker]

[quote= flanker ...
" yes i do intend to keep closely loyal to the color code! "

____ I trust you actually mean the DUCATI color-code !?
__ Unfortunately I-myself don't much agree with Ducati's n-c.wiring color-code as it was rather cheap ! - (For one example, the only difference between the two,black-wires running-back to the tail-lamp, was that the taillight-wire was 18-gauge and the brake-light's was 16-gauge.) _ And-so I always preferred adopting the w-c.color-code (which has the taillight-wire colored 'yellow').
There are a number of such noteworthy differences, that it will be a trying-decision for you to choose between n-c.loyalty & w-c.logic.
Since you are-not intending to keep your '65-Monza near 100% originally-correct, then I'd suggest using the w-c.Ducati-wiring color-code, (which avoids much overuse of mere BLACK-colored wiring !).

yes! so go to the wc diagram that sounds good.

" you bring up a tough question. the 4 terminal electric switch. it seems that was used for a year or 2. "

____ All the battery-powered Monza/Sebring/GT/Mach-I models used the same-type of double-circuit twin-{OFF\off / ON\on}-switch (which 'opens' both it's circuits by default) ! _ However the similar double-circuit dual-{on\OFF / off\ON}-switch (which has one of it's circuits rather 'closed' by default), was used on most magneto-powered Duke-models with hybrid magneto/battery-powered load-systems (like that of the '66-Scr & M.Jr models).
So such double-circuit key-switches were used for well-over two years !
__ What needs to be determined is whether the Electrix-ign.system requires the twin-type or dual-type double-switch.
If the Electrix-ign.switch-circuit needs to become grounded in order for it's ignition to switch-into it's activated-status, then your stock twin-circuit type key-switch will perform the expected function.
However if that Electrix-circuit is always 'live' by default, and-so thus-then rather needs to be grounded so as to 'kill' it's otherwise always activated-state,, then you'd require the dual-circuit type key-switch (in order to be able to ground-out & shut-off the ign.power).
__ Since Sam was good-enough to tell us merely that the Electrix-system only-comes with just a mere 'kill-switch' (which we're still also left uninformed as to exactly how that*switch functions, [* particularly opposed to the unclarified switch-circuitry of the 4-terminal switch depicted within the so-lacking Blackie-diagram]), perhaps Nick could tell us exactly how the included kill-switch actually performs.
Otherwise it seems we'd be left to ASSUME that the supplied 'kill-switch' operates same-as common/ordinary kill-switches do - (by grounding-out the produced power so that there's then nothing left available to create a spark with). _ However I would-not think that such electronic-circuits necessarily also need function that same way.
So anyhow,, if this is actually how the included kill-switch works, then you'd need to acquire the dual-type key-switch, (if you really want a KEY-activatable ign.switch) !
And assuming so, I'd then recommend a key-switch like those used by the 1973 350-ROAD model.

Ok Im def starting to enjoy (and understand) this more! I just got the kit in the mail. I'm taking the dog for a walk and then i'll dig through it to figure the supplied "kill switch." Ok and If i don't want a key which also seems kinds cool and handy what switch do i purchase? or maybe wait until i examine the electrex! again thx again your knowledge on this subject is extensive and I'm def getting an education, which is why I'm doing this in the first place! R

my bike s a 65 250 monza that I think had the round headlight and round tank right b4 they switched to square... I have the original switch but i wanted to replace it. online its difficult to locate. yes I have several of the original proper color codes. I just got a few of the old manuals yesterday in the mail. its not colored but the wires are labeled in black and white... I wonder if I am going to have to use the old switch with troubles me a bit. The old key is brilliant! R

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