1965 ducati narrow case

[flanker]

Hello I'm a brand new poster, but Ive been reading this amazing forum for some time. I have a 1965 ducati monza narrowcase thats pretty dilapidated and I'm trying to fix it up to be a rider around Venice CA. Its run before but currently isn't. The motor was rebuilt by Paul Lima from san diego years ago. It has great compression and I'm confident he did a solid job. The wiring... thats another story. I have the stator with the odd black and red wires coming out of the case (not the yellow). The wires are toast and I can't see how they are still working. I also took the tape off the rest of the loom and its horrific fixes everywhere... So I was planning on taking the electric 161 kit plunge. Mostly because its power and it seems like an interesting project for my level. I have a 1974 norton commando and a vespa 1980 p200e that I brought back to life. I did the commando with a lot of help. plus a modern multistrada. So i'm taking this project slow as I have some other bikes to ride. My questions are many but I start with these and if anyone has some insight I'd like to hear it! neg or positive.....

concerning electric
1. If i install the electrex 161 full stator ignition kit, do I run a 12v battery, if so who makes solid battery that will fit narrowcases.
2. How do I rewire the rest of the loom. Do I use the stock diagram for headlight etc... or is there another better diagram for the horn, lights etc... I noticed someone mentioned that there is a way to have the low beam and rear light on all the time. I kinda like that idea. With some sort of mechanism to hit the bights. Or is it better to just run the brights always since I'm getting more power supposedly. Since I'm not planning on running the espresso maker too (bad humor)! any diagrams would be helpful.
3. Id like to use the stock headlight casing but up grade the bulb etc...
4. what if any problems are associated with the electric 161 kit. I noticed some single guys are not carrying the product anymore but, that it may have been improved/updated.
5. Id also like to use nos or new versions of the horn ignition key kill switch etc.. as they look right and seem to be somewhat plentiful.
6. sorry to bring up this subject as its been debated b4 but i don't seem to understand completely so i opened the dialog.

wheels rims etc..
1. the drum brakes seem to work fine, so i'll keep them but the rims are wrong. what size do i need? was thinking of having buchanans (sp?) make up a new set.

thats all for now but I'm quite sure more questions will arise. Thanks for having me I really enjoy the forum!!! Robert

[Sam]

Here ye go a copy of a diagram I received from Derek Blackie from Forfar Scotland when I rewired my wee scrambler using a 12v conversion from Elextrex.

[flanker]

thx soon much! have you had any issues? what gauge wire 16 and 18? thx again i really appreciate it! r

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ I've looked-over the electrical-system schematic-diagram graciously submitted by Sam,
and I have a few comments to make concerning it...
__ Firstly, it's fuzing-plan is inadequate !
It's system-wiring color-coding is pretty-much unlike any used by Ducati, (and that's disconcerting) !
The "Ignition Warning" indicator-light is either mislabeled or-else it's wire-circuit is incorrectly wired-up !
The internal circuit-scheme of the "Ignition Switch" is left unknown, so that tends to leave ya wondering whether-or-not the "Black/White" wire-lead is meant to supply key-switched battery-power to power-up the "Digital cdi" unit, (as is normally expected for non-self-powered electronic-units). _ However since the ign.switch is depicted with a grounded-terminal, (which otherwise makes no-sense), it must thus-then be that the CDI.unit needs to be switched to a ground-circuit,, but even-so, it's still left unknown as to whether the unit needs to become grounded when the ign.system is to be switched into it's nonfunctional defeated-status, (as like a kill-switch circuit), or rather, whether that CDI.unit needs to become grounded in order to then achieve it's functional activated-status. - (Maybe somebody-else knows which-way that ground-circuit must operate. [?])
If the CDI.unit's associated system comes with it's-own ign.switch included, then this important detail would already be solved (and need-not be concerned with),, but otherwise, procuring a key-switch with the correct internal circuit-switching could be a frustrating endeavor.
__ I could correct the mentioned shortcomings of that diagram-scheme if it's actually expected to-be used by anyone.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[flanker]

____ I've looked-over the electrical-system schematic-diagram graciously submitted by Sam,
and I have a few comments to make concerning it...
__ Firstly, it's fuzing-plan is inadequate !
It's system-wiring color-coding is pretty-much unlike any used by Ducati, (and that's disconcerting) !
The "Ignition Warning" indicator-light is either mislabeled or-else it's wire-circuit is incorrectly wired-up !
The internal circuit-scheme of the "Ignition Switch" is left unknown, so that tends to leave ya wondering whether-or-not the "Black/White" wire-lead is meant to supply key-switched battery-power to power-up the "Digital cdi" unit, (as is normally expected for non-self-powered electronic-units). _ However since the ign.switch is depicted with a grounded-terminal, (which otherwise makes no-sense), it must thus-then be that the CDI.unit needs to be switched to a ground-circuit,, but even-so, it's still left unknown as to whether the unit needs to become grounded when the ign.system is to be switched into it's nonfunctional defeated-status, or rather, whether it needs to become grounded in order to then achieve it's functional activated-status. - (Maybe somebody-else knows which-way. [?])
If the CDI.unit's associated system comes with it's-own ign.switch included, then this important concern would already be solved (and need-not be contemplated),, but otherwise, procuring a key-switch with the correct internal circuit-switching could be a frustrating endeavor.
__ I could correct the mentioned shortcomings of that diagram-scheme if it's actually expected to-be used by anyone.

wow I've just read this 4 times and I'm starting to get it. Well I really need some sort of diagram because I'm totally useless in coming up with it on my own.

this is the link to the electrex diagram from the company... I'm just wondering how the rest is sorted....

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/STK-161-164.pdf

I really appreciate your input, I'm pretty new to wiring as the other projects i mentioned i just purchased pre made looms. I have a great crimper tool and the good barrel connectors, i just need to source the good wires (I've looked at some great links on the forum, and i understand its a mixture of 18 and 16 gauge). anyhow i hope the diagram from the company can provide some insight! thx again its getting really interesting for me! robert

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= flanker ...
" I've just read this 4 times and I'm starting to get it. "

____ If there's any part you're having trouble getting,, let me know, and I'll then elaborate with different wording.



" Well I really need some sort of diagram because I'm totally useless in coming up with it on my own. "

____ That diagram is actually good-enough to base your wiring-system on.



" this is the link to the electrex diagram from the company... I'm just wondering how the rest is sorted.... "

____ Your link is unfruitful for me. _ From what you see of it, is it's wiring-scheme the same as that shown in the presented diagram -(either the original, or the simplified-version seen below) ?
__ Does the Electrex-system come with it's own ign.switch ?



" I'm pretty new to wiring as the other projects i mentioned i just purchased pre made looms.
I have a great crimper tool and the good barrel connectors, "

____ Making your-own wiring-looms, is pleasurable & rewarding ! _ It's a major part of the enjoyment experienced by completing your very-own restoration-project ! _ It's a shame for anyone to cheat themselves out of the related experienced fun of doing such rewiring-work.



" i just need to source the good wires (
i understand its a mixture of 18 and 16 gauge). "

____ Most everything ought be 16-gauge, except the taillight & instrument-lights which can rather be mere 18-gauge.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[Nick]

I recently put the Electrex flywheel/stator/rectifier on my narrow case 250. For the wiring I just use two toggle switches, one for lights, one for ignition. There are plenty of small 12V batteries out there that'll work fine. I found a scooter headlight bulb that (sort of) fit the stock headlight lens and it throws out plenty of light. For a brake light you can use an old Triumph/BSA front brake cable that has the brake light switch in the cable. There are also modern scooter/bike parts that'll do the job just fine, or use the stock brake light setup.

Anyway, I'm very happy with the system. However, I've saved the old flywheel/stator for any future owners that might be deranged enough to want to resurrect the stock Ducati electrical system. (You'll note, however, that most of those types seldom ride their bikes.)

Back in the seventies I rode my then rusty and unrestored 250 MkIII all around the Venice area. I not only rode the bike to U.C.L.A. almost daily, after school I strapped my toolbox on the seat and rode it around Marina Del Rey where I worked as a marine engine mechanic. Too much fun!

The rectifier and toggles are mounted on an aluminum plate under the seat - see pic

The bike also looks a bit better these days...

[Sam]

____ I've looked-over the electrical-system schematic-diagram graciously submitted by Sam,
and I have a few comments to make concerning it...
__ Firstly, it's fuzing-plan is inadequate ! The amount of FUSES used is up to the individule as they see fit.
It's system-wiring color-coding is pretty-much unlike any used by Ducati, (and that's disconcerting) ! Why should this be? as long as the owner has a copy of which wire colour is used.
The "Ignition Warning" indicator-light is either mislabeled or-else it's wire-circuit is incorrectly wired-up ! Not so! this can be wired in to a warning light if desired.
The internal circuit-scheme of the "Ignition Switch" is left unknown, so that tends to leave ya wondering whether-or-not the "Black/White" wire-lead is meant to supply key-switched battery-power to power-up the "Digital cdi" unit, (as is normally expected for non-self-powered electronic-units). _ However since the ign.switch is depicted with a grounded-terminal, (which otherwise makes no-sense), it must thus-then be that the CDI.unit needs to be switched to a ground-circuit,, but even-so, it's still left unknown as to whether the unit needs to become grounded when the ign.system is to be switched into it's nonfunctional defeated-status, (as like a kill-switch circuit), or rather, whether that CDI.unit needs to become grounded in order to then achieve it's functional activated-status. - (Maybe somebody-else knows which-way that ground-circuit must operate. [?]) The Elecrex unit comes with a kill switch. My ignition only has 3 terminals and is used as a secure toggle switch off/on for the battery circut.
If the CDI.unit's associated system comes with it's-own ign.switch included, then this important detail would already be solved (and need-not be concerned with),, but otherwise, procuring a key-switch with the correct internal circuit-switching could be a frustrating endeavor.
__ I could correct the mentioned shortcomings of that diagram-scheme if it's actually expected to-be used by anyone. I have used this diagram but also included the use of aftermarket switchgear and indicators nor did I follow the Ducati colour scheme.








Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Sam ...
" The amount of FUSES used is up to the individule as they see fit. "

____ Indeed so, (and that point ought go without saying). _ But still, the presented-diagram's poor fuse-scheme leaves the possibility for some of it's wiring to still be damageable (by high-current available from the battery) !

It's system-wiring color-coding is pretty-much unlike any used by Ducati, (and that's disconcerting) !

" Why should this be? as long as the owner has a copy of which wire colour is used. "

____ By my carefully chosen word: "disconcerting", I simply meant that the lack of complying with a well established color-scheme, leaves no logical rhyme & reason with a trustworthy correlation that could be followed by another who didn't choose the employed non-stock wiring-colors.
__ Considering how many used-bikes also come along with their owners-manual, how likely would you expect to receive any rewiring color-code notes that the PO may've made for himself ?
Next time you acquire a motorcycle with non-stock wiring-colors (of which you need to sort-out some of it's wiring), you'll then learn for yourself how concertedly content you actually are with the PO's (possibly random) choices of wire-colors for his-own rewiring-job.

The "Ignition Warning" indicator-light is either mislabeled or-else it's wire-circuit is incorrectly wired-up !

" Not so! this can be wired in to a warning light if desired. "

____ Apparently you've failed to understand correctly, as I was obviously in reference to the "Ignition Warning" circuit (which is already shown connected to a 'warning-light') !
(Unless you enjoy having your oppositional-statements proven wrong, you should learn to think twice before contradicting anything I've stated !)
__ However if you are indeed actually meaning to address the "Ignition Warning" circuit, then how about stating your explanation of how it's warning-light is able to be capable of warning whether the ignition-system status is actually switched into it's activated-state or not ?
(Then next, I'll offer my-own explanation telling how it's actually not capable of doing so !)

(Maybe somebody-else knows which-way that ground-circuit must operate. [?])

" The Elecrex unit comes with a kill switch. My ignition only has 3 terminals and is used as a secure toggle switch off/on for the battery circut. "

____ I wonder if anyone-else clearly understands exactly what you're actually meaning to convey with your entire statement !?
Perhaps it's intended meaning could become apparent if a related wiring-diagram accompanied that chosen wording.
__ Which "battery circut" are you specifically referring-to ?
So is the Black/White-wire expected to be connected to a kill-switch ?

__ I could correct the mentioned shortcomings of that diagram-scheme if it's actually expected to-be used by anyone.

I have used this diagram but also included the use of aftermarket switchgear and indicators nor did I follow the Ducati colour scheme. "

____ In that case, a possible future-owner will probably look-back at YOU as the inconsiderate PO who screwed-up the Duke-wiring's color-code and left him having-to sort-out all it's rewiring-work.
__ I must admit that I-too am fairly guilty of having altered stock Ducati-wiring color-codes whenever doing-so better suited general wiring logic, but I'd usually care to stick-with any stock wire-color which I had no logical reason to change.
It always really upset me when I'd later find-out that a Duke-project I had once rewired in a superior fashion, had next been resold again to a third-party who didn't understand it, and-so rewired it again with their-own inferior system which they tried to restore back to closer emulate the stock system (which they were only able to look-up within the established manuals) !
Did the buyers who I sold my Duke-projects to ever bother to convey to their buyers anything about the superior merits of the Duke's modified electrical-system ? - It seemed often not !


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[Sam]

[quote= Sam ...
"

The "Ignition Warning" indicator-light is either mislabeled or-else it's wire-circuit is incorrectly wired-up !

" Not so! this can be wired in to a warning light if desired. "

____ Apparently you've failed to understand correctly, I was obviously in reference to the "Ignition Warning" circuit (which is already shown connected to a 'warning-light') !
Unless you enjoy having your statements proven wrong, you should learn to think twice before contradicting anything I've stated !
__ However if you are indeed actually meaning to address the "Ignition Warning" circuit, then how about giving your explanation of how it's warning-light is expected to warn whether the ignition-system is in it's activated state or not ?
















Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[/quote][/quote]

Ah sorry I did interpretate incorrectly what you were saying ,must have been a lapse in concentration reading through the post, I picked that up as the charging light which is not connected. As for the ignition warning that would be a simple illumination showing the circuit is live when the ignition is switched on. p.s that was some statemnet you made there!!