Electrical upgrade

[gmlaverda]

__ Anyhow, you ought-to prefer to obtain the biggest battery that'll fit within the allotted volume-space and has at-least a 5AH.rating. _ But keep in mind that the smaller the battery-AH.rating, the less able it is to hold system-voltage steady,, and therefore also more apt-to require a regulator-circuit (not-only to help control system voltage-level, but-also protect the battery-itself from overheating [due-to overcharging]).

Bob-I did locate a Motobatt MBTX7U 12v 8aH AGM battery which would fit nicely in the available space, with a little room to spare.

____ So what's next ?
At this point, you should still have lots of questions to get ironed-out.
__ Do you already have a source for various colors of 16-gauge wire, to construct some kind of wiring-harness ?

Funny, I do not have lots of questions left at this time. Maybe I should. Although I have been thinking about circuit protection and where and how to mount all of the various components. And I do have a few scraps of 16-gauge wire left from a prior project. But I will probably start from scratch and purchase wire, sheathing and terminals once I have a color code established.

Thank you

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= gmlaverda ...
" I did locate a Motobatt MBTX7U 12v 8aH AGM battery which would fit nicely "

____ That amp/hour-size should be adequately large enough to get-by without a regulator, so long as half the alt.power is cut-off whenever* the headlight is-not turned-on & drawing power (* at-least during extended time-periods), (so as to help keep the overall-system balanced close enough so that the battery can then rather easily handle any remaining mismatched power-supply/demand balancing [that's of-course naturally dependent upon the varying RPM]).
__ So if it's found price is already right for you, then I suppose you could stop shopping for any other battery-model.



" I do not have lots of questions left at this time. "

____ So then I gather you already have a good conceptional-understanding of exactly how to connect-up all the related circuit-components of the particular charging-system that you wish to adopt,
right ? _ But even if so,, it still ought-to be gone-over here anyhow, so that not only you-yourself can then become positively assured, but-also so that others may then keep track of what-all is exactly what as well.
__ Even-though I haven't covered all the possible applicable charging-system scheme-options that you might consider,, I'm left to assume that you've already become reasonably content with the logical Jap.method of leaving an auxiliary alt.stator-circuit shut-off for when the main-lights are not turned-on, (as I recommend, [even for systems with regulator-units]). _ However there are multiple wiring-methods for accomplishing this reasonably-thoughtful power-balancing function,, and since I haven't yet covered any of the various possible circuit-schemes, I've thus expected you to have questions concerning the particular details for this sensible non-stock circuit-option.
__ For now, I'm including a scheme-diagram of a typical classic Jap.bike aux.power-circuit that's made to logically become activated along-with the main-lights control-switch. _ And after giving the diagram a look-over, it may then possibly become questionable as to exactly how to similarly arrange a circuit-scheme that adopts such a logical concept to a Ducati-alternator.



" Although I have been thinking about circuit protection "

____ Well-now that's certainly a good consideration to ponder !
While you could possibly get-by with merely-just a 20-amp fuse in-line with the ground-lead between the battery-neg.terminal-post and the frame, (which I highly recommend !),, I'd also suggest a couple of 15-amp fuses as well, one for the main-lights and one for the horn & brake-light power-circuit, (both probably best housed within the headlamp, like stock).



" and where and how to mount all of the various components. "

____ Your chosen rectifier setup ought be best placed onto the stock mounting-point under the seat & above the battery (as like factory-stock).
And for anything else in particular, please ask for suggestions.



" I do have a few scraps of 16-gauge wire left from a prior project. But I will probably start from scratch and purchase wire, "

____ While I-myself don't really agree 100% with Ducati's choices of wire-colors, I'd still suggest trying to stick-with their stock w-c.color-scheme however.
And in that case, you'll thus-then need the following wire-colors...
red;
blue;
white;
yellow;
black;
green;
orange*
(In order of importance, [* with the orange-color (or perhaps brown instead), being my-own suggestion for the non-stock wiring-lengths].)



" once I have a color code established. "

____ Logically remaining loyal (as possible) to the stock wire-color scheme...
The red-wire is for the connection between the battery & the key-switch.
The blue-length is meant for the circuit from the key-switch to the horn & brake-switch.
The white-length is meant for the connection between the key-switch & the ign.coil.
The yellow, (longest length of all, and could be merely 18-gauge), is to the taillight from the light-switch.
The black-wire is intended for the connection between the brake-light & brake-switch, and also for the horn activation circuit (between horn & horn-button).
The green-wiring (logically substituted for black) is intended for all grounding-circuit connections to frame-parts.
The orange-color is intended for the length between the aux.alternator/rectifier-circuit & it's toggle-switch.
__ There should be more questions to iron-out, concerning at-least some of these wiring-circuits.

____ Do you have a source for a couple of full-wave rectifier bridge-blocks and suitable toggle-switches ?


Fun-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[gmlaverda]

__ Even-though I haven't covered all the possible applicable charging-system scheme-options that you might consider,, I'm left to assume that you've already become reasonably content with the logical Jap.method of leaving an auxiliary alt.stator-circuit shut-off for when the main-lights are not turned-on, (as I recommend, [even for systems with regulator-units]). _ However there are multiple wiring-methods for accomplishing this reasonably-thoughtful power-balancing function,, and since I haven't yet covered any of the various possible circuit-schemes, I've thus expected you to have questions concerning the particular details for this sensible non-stock circuit-option.
__ For now, I'm including a scheme-diagram of a typical classic Jap.bike aux.power-circuit that's made to logically become activated along-with the main-lights control-switch. _ And after giving the diagram a look-over, it may then possibly become questionable as to exactly how to similarly arrange a circuit-scheme that adopts such a logical concept to a Ducati-alternator.

Bob-I appreciate your willingness to present and discuss numerous options but I really am interested in function of course, but simplicity in design as well. Yes, I would like to incorporate this power-balancing scheme. My head is actually spinning just a bit with all of the options you and others have presented.

____ Do you have a source for a couple of full-wave rectifier bridge-blocks and suitable toggle-switches ?

No, I do not have a source and have not researched this yet. Is there a supplier(s) you would recommend?

I apologize for the lapse of time in my reply. It is nice to have some continuity in the discussion, but I have been traveling and thoroughly enjoying the holidays with the exception of internet access "issues" along the way. Hope you enjoyed the holidays as well. Thanks

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= gmlaverda ...
" I appreciate your willingness to present and discuss numerous options "

____ I feel the need to do-so (at-least to a minimal extent), cuz I believe it's only fair that the various pros-&-cons of the alternate methods ought-to be picked & chosen by the particular person who's actually conducting the modification work.
And for the next-step,, you shall realize that there's such a choice which you ought-to appreciate picking from, for whatever your preferred priorities may end-up boiling-down to.



" I really am interested in function of course, but simplicity in design as well. "

____ Of-course that's fair reason for why you should be made aware of the various possible options, so that you-yourself can make the decision concerning what's simple (or too complex) in regards to any gained function.



" Yes, I would like to incorporate this power-balancing scheme. "

____ Good decision ! _ Cuz without doing so, most-all alternative charging-system methods would actually require some sort of power regulation circuitry, (unless of-course you'd rather consider concocting a way to haul-around a truck-battery instead ).



" My head is actually spinning just a bit with all of the options you and others have presented. "

____ Most all new concepts can possibly seem kind-of mind-boggling at-first,, but once ya naturally get a handle on them and comprehend what's-what, you'll then clearly realize how very simple everything actually is !
Afterwards, when you've finally picked-out your chosen electrical-system's completed scheme,, you then ought-to enjoy the self-satisfaction of having done so.
__ If you have any foggy conceptions that concern you, please ask questions about them !



" No, I do not have a source and have not researched this yet. Is there a supplier(s) you would recommend? "

____ No, sorry,, none that I'd particularly recommend, however I think 'Radio Shack' should offer suitable bridge-rectifiers & switches for your project.



____ For now, I'll next post a scheme-diagram for adopting & adapting the recommended Jap.circuit-scheme so as to best accommodate the WideCase-type circuitry-arrangement, (since it's the most logical related scheme to be submitted first-off [for a w-c.Duke such as your project]).
However it's up to you to decide whether it's really important or not to remain loyal to the w-c.type of ground-circuit arrangement. _ I-myself have never felt the need to stick-with the newer/w-c.style of dual half-wave rectification-circuit arrangement, and-so in-fact have only ever employed this w-c.type Jap.circuit-scheme just once, (and that was rather on my '73 750GT/L-twin). _ Instead, I've always preferred to retain the n-c.type of ground-circuit arrangement for all modified singles, (even for w-c.projects as well) !
(When I next post the n-c.type circuit-arrangement, then it should be fully clear what the actual difference is between the two -[n-c & w-c] charging-system ground-circuits.)
____ Concerning the Jap.circuit-scheme's effect on Ducati's alternator-output...
When the aux.power-switch is set in off-mode,, then there's merely-just standard/ordinary half-wave rectification of only one of the two alt.stator-circuits, of-which the result merely provides up near only about 20-watts (on average, [depending on RPM]), which is then all the charging-power that's available (during that mode of operation).
That reduced power-output will pretty-much balance-out with the relatively minimal combined power-load/demand of the ign.system & battery, (although could possibly overcharge a smallish battery, if high-RPM.running is maintained for too long).
__ However when the switch is set to it's on-mode,, then of-course not-only would an equal amount of additional power become introduced, but-also Ducati's intended auto-adjusting upward-regulation power-effect would then become activated as well ! _ And all of those sources of power combined, should tally-up to be good for up near a maximum of 80-watts, (accordingly depending on total load).
__ This relatively clever charging-system circuit ought-to have been thought-of & considered for use by Ducati, (so as to reduce any need for expensive regulator-circuits, [for one-thing]) !


Enlightening-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[tobydmv]

Why not just use the stock system and upgrade the bulbs to LED? Modern LED's will handle all the voltage you can throw at it. That eliminates the need for a regulator and rectifier. Which is replaced with a simple driver like a buck puck or boost.

I have plans to make twist lock LED bulbs that drop into the old school Parabolla/reflectors. Just like the stock bulbs but 3x the lumens. If anyone has a lathe and likes to tinker send me a PM. I'm waiting on my neighbor to get his lathe and shop together. I run a LED tail light in my Motobi and its insanely bright. You can see it from space.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Concerning the above post,, I (at-least for one), am left wondering which of the 44 previous thread-posts (including all those which had already touched-on LED.lighting within this thread), was most responsible for inspiring the creation of that last post. _ So that a better sense of continuity could be realized and-thus help keep the thread rather more concerted.
(The loss of concerted-progression within a thread is most always such a casualty whenever similar orphan-posts become submitted out of the gray-blue without any obviously preceding guiding-point of reference.)
____ Anyhow, the topic of constructing/producing LED.bulb-units that can properly fit into existing/unmodified original headlight-reflector/dishes without any-other modifications required, is an interesting subject that's most certainly quite well worthy of it's very-own thread !




____ Next, now that a good amount of time has past so that the last presented scheme-diagram has had a sufficient period to have been digested into mind (so as to help avoid confusion between schemes),, I'll now present another similar version of the Jap.circuit-scheme which has two main differences from the previous one...
First, this-one exploits the n-c.type ground-circuit,, and second, it rectifies the aux.power rather before becoming 'switched' !
Of-course either of these changes could be done alone without the other, but naturally I'm really not interested in drawing-up independent/individual diagrams for each & every possible scheme variant with just one change each. _ However I'd possibly consider doing one with any single change, providing that it's an actually serious consideration.
In addition, I've added the circuit-details concerning the connections to the w-c.key-switch.
__ I've always preferred to employ this scheme, because for one advantage, it eliminates one length of wire from the aux.switch all the way back to the rectifier-location,, and for another, the rectifier-circuitry can then be removed from the battery when the key-switch is off, (thus eliminating any reverse-leakage [which otherwise could eventually drain the battery when left setting over long periods]).
____ I need questions (or at-least comments) to become motivated to continue-onward much further, so please feel free to carry-on ! - (And that includes anybody !)


Fun-Cheers,
-Bob

[gmlaverda]

"However it's up to you to decide whether it's really important or not to remain loyal to the w-c.type of ground-circuit arrangement. _ I-myself have never felt the need to stick-with the newer/w-c.style of dual half-wave rectification-circuit arrangement, and-so in-fact have only ever employed this w-c.type Jap.circuit-scheme just once, (and that was rather on my '73 750GT/L-twin). _ Instead, I've always preferred to retain the n-c.type of ground-circuit arrangement for all modified singles, (even for w-c.projects as well) ! "

Bob-I like your way of thinking. Since I am not doing a concours or "correct" restoration< I have the option of doing what is sensible and an improvement. The n-c ground circuit arrangement sounds like something I would like. Thanks

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= gmlaverda ...
" Since I am not doing a concours or "correct" restoration< I have the option of doing what is sensible and an improvement. "

____ I'm not sure of exactly what you're thinking is "an improvement", but I think it was un-smart of Ducati to have installed their w-c.type 3-terminal key-switches and-yet only take advantage of just two of it's terminals (and leave the third unused) ! _ So I've always sought to find some way or another to make logical use of all-three terminals so as to spread-out the current-load and-thus improve connection efficiency & switch-life.
And-so it makes reasonable sense to me to use individual dedicated wires to separately carry the battery's pos.juice and the charging-system's pos.juice up to the key-switch rather within two separate 16-gauge wires, instead of pre-blending the two current-flows mixed-together and carry their combined amperage within a single length of 14-gauge (and thus-then consequently also have-to depend on merely the rectifier to prevent bleeding of the battery whenever the engine is-not to be running).



" The n-c ground circuit arrangement sounds like something I would like. "

____ There's actually no real difference between the two ground-circuits themselves that makes one version really superior over the other, unless perhaps ya happen to come-up with some-odd wiring-scheme for better suiting some-other circuit that easily works well with one ground-scheme yet would be less convenient or impossible to accomplish with the other version,, (such-as in the case of Ducati's w-c.R/R.unit-casing having been made allowed to make direct physical & electrical contact with it's grounded frame-mount, [where-as their n-c.version had to have it's rectifier-casing electrically-isolated from ground]).
The only thing that's actually superior with Ducati's w-c.scheme, is that the 'common-lead' of the alt.stator has become routed to an external location outside of the motor-case, (instead of being left grounded internally behind the alt.rotor [as with the n-c.version]) !
__ I always chose to stick-with my established n-c.type ground-circuit wiring-scheme even for w-c.projects, mainly because it was what I had become accustomed to doing (long before I ever got any chances to rebuild electrical-systems on w-c.models).
However it's only decently considerate to not stick others with merely-just my very-own set-ways,, and rather, allow them to pick what ought better serve themselves. _ And since your project is a wide-case model,, it's therefore only reasonable to have first familiarized you with a correspondingly likewise circuit-scheme, (perhaps more-so for the possible sake of a future owner who may possibly realize what-all a 'WideCase' is supposed to be).


Duke-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[tobydmv]

____ Concerning the above post,, I (at-least for one), am left wondering which of the 44 previous thread-posts (including all those which had already touched-on LED.lighting within this thread), was most responsible for inspiring the creation of that last post. _ So that a better sense of continuity could be realized and-thus help keep the thread rather more concerted.
(-Bob

This reminds me of an old joke. Whats the difference between Bob and the refrigerator? JK of course. Bob I am sorry I did not read the full thread. I'll try to contain my ADD.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= tobydmv ...
" I am sorry I did not read the full thread. "

____ Oh,, well that doesn't seem to have mattered very much anyway. _ Was just simply left wondering what you had read within this thread that had inspired your particular submitted response-thoughts.
(This-time however, your submitted post has certainly left an obvious clue as to where you're 'coming-from' !)


Concerted-Cheers,
-Bob