1965 Monza Jr 160 Wiring & Battery Options

[thatnameisal]

Maybe a little history on the re-wiring

The only high-temp wiring I could find was SJEOOW which comes with Green, Black and White 16 AWG

I just tested it and all three wires have continuity with the case...

I included pictures because I am befudled - Using the case as ground (coil and spark plug wires not connected), here are the results:



GREEN:


WHITE


BLACK

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= thatnameisal ..
" I just tested it and all three wires have continuity with the case... "

____ That's consistent with the particular alt.stator-model which your 160 should have !


" I included pictures because I am befudled "

____ Your pix show readouts that seem like something other than 'ohms' is being measured.
(I-myself have never learned to trust digital-meters, as crap-readings such as you've gotten are almost to be expected of them.)
Are you sure you have your meter set to read 'ohms' (at the most sensitive scale) ?
And-also, make sure not to also let YOURSELF come in any contact with your meter's probe-contacts.

Using the case as ground,
here are the results:

" GREEN: "

____ Meaning the stock #9/red wire-lead power-coil circuit.
__ Should be about '.7'.


" WHITE "

____ Likely eaning the #2/white wire-lead power-coil circuit.
__ Should be about '.2'.


" BLACK "

____ Meaning the #14/yellow wire-lead power-coil circuit.
__ Should be about '.9'.


____ As I've indicated, please refer to the three alt.wire-leads by their number-designations - (#2; #9; & #14) instead of wire-colors (since you've chosen non-stock colors).
__ It would further help if you could CONFIRM exactly-where those three wires connect-at to the upper & lower power-coils !


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[thatnameisal]

-----Are you sure you have your meter set to read 'ohms' (at the most sensitive scale) ?


Yes - I know this post has "outed" me as not being an electro-wizard, but check the pics above - the meter is set to 20k Ohms.

This was the most accurate of my 2 multimeters as well as my neighbors' additional 2 multimeters. I borrowed them because my meter was giving a NEGATIVE Ohm reading - which is why you seem as perplexed as I about the results. Turns out mine was the most sensitive.

I decided to repeat the measurements (which took a while because the meter took about 10min each time to stop moving). I took the measurements by attaching red alligator clip to the bolt end at the base of the barrel and black alligator clip to wire end. The results are listed below:

Green White Black
-2.08 -2.08 -2.08
-2.18 -2.15 -2.15
-2.15 -2.18 -2.17
-2.14 -2.12 -2.04

Avg -2.14 -2.13 -2.11

Your notes from above:
____ Meaning the stock #9/red wire-lead power-coil circuit.
__ Should be about '.7'.
____ Likely eaning the #2/white wire-lead power-coil circuit.
__ Should be about '.2'.
____ Meaning the #14/yellow wire-lead power-coil circuit.
__ Should be about '.9'.


The STOCK red is definitely my GREEN (#9 in wiring diagram)
Can we deduce that since my BLACK is reading less resistance than my WHITE that:
My BLACK is #2 wiring diagram/stock white
My WHITE is #14 wiring diagram/stock yellow?

...I know this is going to lead to tearing down the LEFT side to get to the stator and test the resistance directly on it...inst it?

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= thatnameisal ...
" the meter is set to 20k Ohms. "

____ I really don't have much experience with all the manors in which various modern dig.meters handle their readout-properties but, it seems to me that the "20k" setting would be way,way TOO-high for trying to take ohm-readings under merely-JUST 1 single ohm !
With my TRUSTY analog-meter, I have to set it's sensitivity to just 'x1' in order to check for resistance-levels below 1-ohm ! _ Otherwise (at higher settings), test-meters would simply read '0' for such very-low resistance-levels.



" my meter was giving a NEGATIVE Ohm reading - which is why you seem as perplexed as I about the results. "

____ Not only that but, the readout-values (as a whole) don't correlate with expected readings either !



" The results are listed below:
Avg -2.14 -2.13 -2.11 "

____ Sorry to say but, those readings are probably completely useless. _ OR, if we give them valid credit, THEN both of your power-coils have developed short-circuits and are no-good,, but I HIGHLY much-doubt that that's a probable case/situation !
__ I wonder what readings your dig.meters would display if you touched their bare probe-tips together !? _ Still something other than zer0 ?
Too-bad that you don't have a trusty analog-type meter, (anyone who's really serious about trustworthy test-meter readings should have such an older-type test-meter) !



" Can we deduce that since my BLACK is reading less resistance than my WHITE that:
My BLACK is #2 wiring diagram/stock white
My WHITE is #14 wiring diagram/stock yellow? "

____ It's doubtful that much of anything can be deduced for-sure without physically tracing to where your-colored wires actually connect to the power-coils at exactly.



" I know this is going to lead to tearing down the right side to get to the stator and test the resistance directly on it...inst it? "

____ Well our endeavor here has been to make-sure of what-all is exactly what, so that you wouldn't later have-to learn by trial-&-error to try solving any running-issues that come-up.
If you've already moved-ahead,, then you could rather choose to eventually try-out all wiring possibilities and discover if you can get everything to work as originally intended.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[thatnameisal]

I have enhanced the picture to answer this question:
____ It's doubtful that much of anything can be deduced for-sure without physically tracing to where your-colored wires actually connect to the power-coils at exactly.




As far as analog v digital...below, there are two pics taken with my analog meter. As you will note, the lowest range for resistance is 10x. Regardless, the reading is in the negative. The pic on the left is not-connected. The one on the right is connected.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= thatnameisal ...
" I have enhanced the picture "

____ I don't note any actual 'enhancement' but, I certainly do see your added (RANDOM colored) wire-lines !
I have added a brightened version (seen at bottom) with colored-lines which I believe match YOUR chosen wire-lead colors.
Please advise if YOU don't think your chosen wire-colors are shown correctly-indicated on my redone-version of the colored-wire indication picture.
__ Concerning where it's reads "from ground?" in the pic, that center-wire connection-point is indeed still the main-one in question,, but since you can no-longer physically check for-sure, we must assume it's the power-coil terminal-point intended for wire-#2 (since you can't get good ohm-meter readings to help confirm).


" there are two pics taken with my analog meter. As you will note, the lowest range for resistance is 10x. "

____ Unfortunately, a "x10" setting is-not sensitive enough to tell-apart fractions of a single-ohm. _ Ideally, for most accurate measurement of the very-low resistance-levels of the coil-windings in question, an ohm-meter ought-to have a x.1 sensitivity-setting, (or at-least a x1-setting).
__ So it now seems that we'll have to settle for just your continuity-tests and assume that all is well everything.



" the reading is in the negative. "

____ Sorry to tell-ya but, that's not a "negative" reading ! ...
__ Analog ohm-meters require to be adjusted (in accordance to on-board battery-status), so before taking any ohm-reading, you must first tightly contact the meter-probes against each-other and then adjust the meter's needle-setting to '0', BEFORE then-next taking your intended ohm-reading ! _ Doing so then prevents false-readings (including any seemingly negative read-outs [as you think you had gotten]) !



" The one on the right is connected. "

____ Yes but, that needle-location OBVIOUSLY shows an ohm-meter readout that's not been properly calibrated (with the meter-battery's strength) beforehand ! ...
There should be an adjustment-dial located on the side of the meter for setting the meter-needle to zer0, (for proper calibration of the ohm-meter [accordingly with the ohm-meter's particular battery-strength]) !

__ I've included a zoomed-pic (with added red-square) showing just your meter's dial-face expanded (directly below).


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[thatnameisal]

Okay - success...almost...

I went out and bought yet another multi-meter...this one that is sensitive enough to read below 1ohm. Results:
My black wire = 0.9ohm - therefore, Original color Yellow-wire, Wiring Diagram #14
My green wire = 0.2ohm - therefore, Original color White-wire .2ohm, Wiring Diagram #2
My white wire = 0.05-0.1ohm PROBLEM!!!
By power of deduction, my white wire should be Original color red-wire .7ohm, Wiring Diagram #9...but I am getting an incorrect reading.

Thoughts? I am guessing user error

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote thatnameisal ...
" My black wire = 0.9ohm - therefore, Original color Yellow-wire, Wiring Diagram #14 "

____ That's good, your reasoning (here) is properly sound !



" My green wire = 0.2ohm - therefore, Original color White-wire .2ohm, Wiring Diagram #2 "

____ THIS deduction however, is quite fairly questionable,, as the original/stock wire-color was RED and should therefore provide an ohm.reading of about .7) !
So rather, it would more-likely seem that the expected .7-reading has perhaps just happened to be shorted-down (coincidentally) to your .2-reading.



" My white wire = 0.05-0.1ohm PROBLEM!!!"

____ Yes, (if actual),, indeed-so ! _ As this ohm.reading confirms (the above/previous reading) that your lighting/battery-charge power-coil is likely short-circuited.
__ I'm still thinking that the (copper-recolored) internal stator-wire (connected to the center-terminal), needs to be thoroughly checked-out.




" By power of deduction, my white wire should be Original color red-wire .7ohm, Wiring Diagram #9...but I am getting an incorrect reading. "

____ Fortunately, you had taken pix of your stator back when it was still stock, so we at-least KNOW that your green-wire is connected where the original/stock RED-wire was.



" Thoughts? I am guessing user error "

____ Since you have managed to get the ".9" reading correct (for the ign.power-coil), it's thus reasonable to assume that you have also taken your other ohmmeter-readings without any user-error. _ However, a double-check is apparently in order.
__ It seems (thus far) that you've made a smart purchase,, as your new meter-readings of the lower power-coil tend to indicate that somewhere in THOSE-two circuits, something is quite-likely amiss.
__ And with this added discovery, it's now looking like a final-straw in favor of a stator-wiring do-over, is probably in good-order, (sorry to say).


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[thatnameisal]

__ And with this added discovery, it's now looking like a final-straw in favor of a stator-wiring do-over, is probably in good-order, (sorry to say).

YEP

Ill get pics up once I get it all back apart

Thanks for your patience and assistance!

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= thatnameisal ...

" Ill get pics up once I get it all back apart "

____ FIRST, you should check to see if you already have good ign.spark ! _ As you ought need to know whether the mag.rotor ign.timing you've already chosen, actually works well or not.
__ Also, I have further good-advice concerning any stator-wiring that may (rather ought-to) get redone.
For one-thing, you ought-to consider replacing your chosen three wire-lead alt.wire-cable with either a hand-made example with all stock-colors, OR-else a slightly-lesser common four wire-lead alt.wire-cable. _ Such utility 4-wire cables come standard with wire-colors of white; black; green, & RED as well,, and can likely be obtained from the same source as your-chosen 3 wire-lead cable.
That-way, with such an alt.cable,, you could then not-only have logically/stock-like alt.wire-colors, but you could also then use the black-wire to un-ground the lighting-coil from the stator-plate, and relocate that circuit outside of your motor, so-as to then be ABLE to choose from ANY of various circuit-arrangements (such-as for possible battery-operation of the main-lights, etc,etc.), should you ever prefer any such modified circuit-arrangements.
So, your newly discovered ohmmeter-reading issue seems to be leading to you ending-up with at-least an IMPROVED stator-wiring condition.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob