Installing Electrex World Stator System on Diana

[Nick]

Aloha from a new member in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. I just received a stator kit for my Diana from Electrex World and will begin the installation in the next few days. Will keep you posted on progress / performance. Anyone with experience with the system, please feel free to offer advice.

I purchased the bike (below) more than 25 years ago in a non-running, rusty condition for $100 but soon had it running very well. Rode it for daily transportation for two years, then the rod went and it sat for about 8 years. Rebuilt engine and repainted bike, rode it for another couple of years, then it went into on display in a friend's office for about 10 years. Started riding it again last year, ran okay for a while, but engine would stop when it got hot (bad coils), so decided to put an all-new system on.

I've found that with most old bikes, the keys to daily-driver reliability are a more modern carb and all-new electrics. (I also have a 350 Sebring which has been faultlessly reliable in daily transportation thanks to a Mikuni, 12V conversion and home-made wiring with simple toggle switches.)

[Edray]

Nick,
Big Mahalo for your post and pix..I too have a Diana, very similar to yours,even down to the lack of the horn mounting lug, but w/ the black frame. I'm also very interested in the 12v conversion. Where did you purchase it?? Why did you settle on this brand as opposed to the others out there? Please continue to post on it.I know a lot of folks here are more into the purist mode, but its reassuring to hear of your experience and history w/ the Mik and 12 volt package...
Funny ,no? ; I installed a 28mm. Mikuni also and I totally agree that thats a great fix for everyday,reliable riding(so far).
Are you on the Big Island?? I'm imagining riding up from Kona side up from Kawaihae to get some of that great Korean style ahi poke up at KTA Waimea..and those downhill curves goin back down..Please don't tell me that you're riding w/ slippers !!
Sorry if I'm completely off base here, but a Diana back n forth to the beach sounds awesome..
Cheers and Aloha,Ed

[Nick]

Brah!

Hard to believe there's another Diana in the Islands! Good to have some company! Do you ride it much? Do you suppose there are any other Singles here?

Mine had a black frame originally.

Electrex World is in the U.K. and they have a very nice online site. Someone on the old Duc site (perhaps Eldert) recommended them so I bought it. I've been riding old bikes for a long time and learned a long time ago not to waste time with 50-year-old electrical systems!

Should start installing it within the next week, so I'll keep you updated. I've got a NC Scrambler and a spare 350 engine also. My plan is to put the 350 engine in the Scrambler. Best of both worlds, eh?

When converting the Sebring to 12V, all I did was join the 2 yellow wires off the stock stator and then join them and the other wire (red?) to the two wires to the solid-state rectifier I got from the Ducati guy in Florida (can't remember the shop's name, Syds??). I then switched the stock coil for a 12V lucas from a Triumph / BSA, put a sealed beam in the front and 12V bulb out back, and that was it. The bike's been running great like that for years now and puts out so much juice that I leave the lights on for highway / freeway riding so as not to overcharge the battery. I also bypassed the stock wiring for the lights and ignition and used two toggle switches.

I'll leave those inclined to masochistic behavior to ferret out the intricacies of 50-year-old Ducati electrical systems. I just want to go riding.

Surf or die,

Nick glider_boy1@yahoo.co.jp

[Edray]

Sorry Nick, not there anymore!!! Sorry to let you down! I lived on the Hilo side of the Big Island for a year, and my wife grew up there..moved back to the Pacific Northwest bout ten years ago,we have a great local Hawaiian group here but really miss the real thing.. I think I was imagining YOU having all that tropical fun. and fish n poi....
Really admire you for having exotic vintage bikes there! I had my 78 BMW R100S there and felt like the Lone Ranger..least now w/ the internet n all, its a lot better access.
Enjoying the thought of a Single roaring around the Islands, fantastic.
Looking forward to the elect. info too....
Ride safe,paddle hard..

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ First-off, concerning the topic-title of this thread,, the top-pictured Duke-model is-not a mere "Diana", but rather specifically a 'Mark III' version !



[quote= Nick ...
" I just received a stator kit for my Diana from Electrex World and will begin the installation in the next few days. "

____ Back in the '70s, I would've been quite excited about the prospect any such modern/aftermarket system made for installation on ANY Duke-model !
However THESE-days, it sort-of seems to be a certain shame to replace the rather simplistic system as that of a n-c.Mark-III, with anything more complex. _ Doing-so seems to be akin to replacing it's cyl.head with an aftermarket 4-valve head (or the like),, and while it may be a genuine improvement, it raises the question of how-MUCH of the Duke's original-soul is still left !?
Certainly if EVERYTHING except the original-frame's backbone-tubing got replaced with such aftermarket-items, the 'Duke' would then finally be reduced to nothing more than a MERE 'bike' !
(Just my-own personal-outlook on such [THESE days].)



" ran okay for a while, but engine would stop when it got hot (bad coils), "

____ Seems that IF the involved alt.power-coil ever got hot enough to stop powering the ign.system,, it then wouldn't ever start working again, once cooled-off, either.




" When converting the Sebring to 12V, all I did was join the 2 yellow wires off the stock stator and then join them and the other wire (red?) to the two wires to the solid-state rectifier I got from the Ducati guy in Florida "

____ Certainly that wording is not stated correctly, cuz joining the two yellow-wires together would SHORT-out the entire alt.stator !
Rather assuming that you actually had separately connected the pair of yellow-wires to a pair of wire-inputs on your acquired rectifier-unit, (and that r.unit's red-wire connected to your battery),, then that would've been just fine, PROVIDING that THAT r.unit is a rather RARE & simple dual-diode type of rectifier !
However if the r.unit you acquired is actually a quite common full-wave/bridge-type rectifier,, THEN (if you didn't un-ground the alt.stator's stock internal ground-connection), two of the bridge-rectifier's four diodes would be SHORT-circuiting HALF of the alt.stator's power-pulses !



" The bike's been running great like that for years now and puts out so much juice that I leave the lights on for highway / freeway riding so as not to overcharge the battery. "

____ So then I gather that your acquired rectifier-unit does-not also include a regulator-circuit as well !?
__ Anyhow, the excessive power-juice would be expected with half of the alt.power-pulses short-circuited because,, with the extra-HIGH resulting shorted-current, a near equal amount of high current-power is 'induced' into the OTHER charging-circuit that's still remaining in it's standard-function,, due-to the mutual-induction effect which Ducati had meant to take advantage of (with their uniquely wound dual-winding alt.stator).
The cost of producing higher power-output this way, is OVERHEATING both the pair of involved rectifier-diodes (in the 4-diode 'bridge'), and the pair of stator-windings. - (I've seen overheated stator-windings,, and instead of remaining copper-colored, they've become rather darkened-brown, [but may still work well enough], !)
__ That you've had it running for as long as stated,, means that either your acquired r.unit's bridge-diodes are rated to handle such HIGH-current, or, you have actually managed to find a (rather rare) 'dual-diode' rectifier-unit (like Ducati's stock r.r.unit).



" I also bypassed the stock wiring for the lights and ignition and used two toggle switches. "

____ That's something that I-myself have also been guilty-of ! _ Cuz good toggle-switches have proven to pass high-current 6v.juice more reliably.



" I'll leave those inclined to masochistic behavior to ferret out the intricacies of 50-year-old Ducati electrical systems. I just want to go riding. "

____ That type of attitude tends-to cut ya out of the self-satisfaction which one also can get from such somewhat-desirable work, (and can make non-riding-weather not such an all-out downer for multiple-Duke owners).
Someone who misses-out on such added enjoyment, is much-akin to some multi-cylinder Jap.bike-rider who doesn't comprehend the enjoyment of riding a 4-stroke single like our DUKEs !


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Nick]

Yes, if I had the time and inclination it would indeed be better to learn the stock electrical system and keep it working properly. Unfortunately, I have neither, nor do I even have a garage, doing all my work in a carport. (I will of course keep the stock system and give it to whomever acquires the bike on the off chance that he/she will be masochistic enough to want to try to resurrect it.)

Don't really know what's going on with the Sebring electrical system. A Ducati expert I trusted told me what to do with the stator wires, I did it, and the bike charges at around 15 volts. I leave the lights on for highway riding to soak up the extra juice. Right or wrong, it's been running fine this way for quite some time.

In any case, installed the Electrex system on the MkIII--everything went on with zero problems. Currently making a battery box.

Lever tip: Many of you may already have done this, but as you know, the brake and clutch levers on high-time bikes (such as my Mk III) tend to wear oval at their pivot points. If you have access to a lathe and drill press it's a simple matter to drill out the stock hole and make a brass bushing to press into the lever. You then have new-feeling levers and better clutch/brake action.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Nick ...
" if I had the time and inclination it would indeed be better to learn the stock electrical system and keep it working properly. "

____ I-myself really wouldn't much-agree that it'd be actually "better" to maintain the stock-system over such a modern-one, and-so certainly would-not recommend that anyone bother with swapping it back, even to a NOS.Mk-III electrical-system.
It's just that the stock-system (along-with the Mk-III camshaft) is basically all there is that specifically makes a 'Mark-III' the rather UNIQUE Diana-model which it IS !
__ Another point is that it's fairly-likely that there actually wasn't anything really wrong with your Mk-III's original alt.power-system, other than it's quite-likely deteriorated alt.wire-leads.



" (I will of course keep the stock system and give it to whomever acquires the bike on the off chance that he/she will be masochistic enough to want to try to resurrect it.) "

____ I'm-not really positive about your specific-meaning for your application of the word "masochistic" but, it's no-doubt fairly-likely that there are others (who aren't registered here) who would quite-possibly think pretty-much the-same of yourself, for having a similar masochistic mind-set, due-to having chosen to attempt updating & riding an old/non-modern motorcycle instead of a modern-equivalent.
Now of-course such others just don't 'get-it' -(exactly what-ALL it actually is that provides our DUKEs with the unique-soul which they exploit [for OUR sharpened-perception to realize such appealing-enticement] ),, however, transplanting any such modern/non-stock system into an old-Duke, kind-of seems to-be a fairly-big step somewhat sort-of in like-kind of such masochistic-ish mind-set (mainly-from those-others who're only inclined to believe that our old DUKEs have NOTHING-at-ALL to offer).
(So is-not your expressed-viewpoint a case where the old-saying: "those who live in glass-houses, shouldn't throw stones", is fairly-applicable [at-least from the specific-standpoint of those-others] ?)



" installed the Electrex system on the MkIII--everything went on with zero problems. Currently making a battery box. "

____ What-about the REST of your new/related mods ? ...
I'd assume that your chosen headlight will be the greatest beneficiary of your newly installed modern power-system !? _ Can you share any details about THAT, yet ? _ (As it would be a certain shame to go to all the expense & trouble of installing such a high-power system and-then continue to run only-just the stock 25w.headlight-power !)



" Don't really know what's going on with the Sebring electrical system. A Ducati expert I trusted told me what to do with the stator wires, I did it, and the bike charges at around 15 volts. I leave the lights on for highway riding to soak up the extra juice. "

____ Well whatever it actually is that you have going-on with that, it ought to be of interest to have your particular charging-system sorted-out !
So if you ever get a chance to post any pix of your rectifier-unit (along-with it's wiring-connections), then I'll be glad to offer a fair-guess as-to what-all is exactly what (with YOUR charging-system).


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[Nick]

Thanks for all the good info, DCT Bob. Yes, the alt wires were decomposing, and the stock set-up probably could've been made to work okay. However, I wanted to see what it would be like to have a completely new and modern electrical system on the bike, hence the 'shotgun' approach.

Haven't yet decided on a headlight, but was thinking of simply adapting an automotive sealed beam.... Any suggestions / better ideas appreciated. Currently have the stock lens/reflector.

The solid state regulator in the Sebring was sourced from, I believe, Syd's in Florida, and it looks like a home-made item. Will look into the alt. wiring again one of these days, but as it's working okay I'm reluctant to mess with it.

Out of curiosity, would a Tympanium rectifier for a Triumph work on the Ducs?

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Nick ...
" I wanted to see what it would be like to have a completely new and modern electrical system on the bike, hence the 'shotgun' approach."

____ Well-put.
Hopefully then, you had already realized what-all may be involved to replace all the other stock electrical-circuits & parts of the non-battery type Mk.III-system. - For main-instances,, the ignition-parts, and brake-light switch circuit.
Do you intend to add a horn, as well ?
__ Whatever-all, do you already have a new-wiring plan to go-with ?



" Haven't yet decided on a headlight, but was thinking of simply adapting an automotive sealed beam.... "

____ A std.12-volt sealed-beam only consumes just 45-watts. _ With your chosen power-system, you really ought-to consider at-least an 80-watt headlight.



" Any suggestions / better ideas appreciated.
Currently have the stock lens/reflector. "

____ I'd suggest that you take your headlight reflector-dish with you to a bike-junkyard, and-then see if you can find a modern-version which happens to closely-match the same diameter-size of your Mk.III-headlamp's. _ That way, you can then easily find H4-type light-bulbs to suit.



" The solid state regulator in the Sebring was sourced from, I believe, Syd's in Florida, and it looks like a home-made item. "

____ Hopefully they really knew-of what they were actually doing, and custom-built you a dual-diode type of rectifier, (as such non-bridge rectifiers are-not commonly available).



" Will look into the alt. wiring again one of these days, but as it's working okay I'm reluctant to mess with it. "

____ I really wouldn't say "it's working okay", if you really need to keep the lights left turned-on (in order to keep the battery's fluid-level from being boiled-away).



" would a Tympanium rectifier for a Triumph work on the Ducs? "

____ I'm no-longer very-sure THESE-days, but I believe that all of their rectifier-units are of the rather common full-wave/bridge-type,, and ought-to work quite fine on w-c.type alternators (when connected-up to ONE of the w-c.alternator's yellow-wires & the red-wire). _ However such bridge-rectifiers won't work properly on unmodified n-c.type Ducati alt-stators of the type which were originally made for battery-powered Duke-models.
ALL n-c.types of alt.stators would need to have their alt.power-coils ungrounded, before they could then be expected to properly-function as intended with such 4-diode bridge-rectifiers !


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Nick]

Conversion update: All is going smoothly. Turns out a 3-prong headlamp bulb from one of those metric scooters fits just fine, and the local auto parts place had a universal plug that fits it, all of which results in a very sano wiring package. Made and mounted batt box and now stringing the wiring.

Here's a pic of the regulator and two toggle switches: one for ignition, one for lights. Mounting plate is thin aluminum held with aircraft clamps.