centre stand woes

[blethermaskite]

After some time searching I have managed to source a 'handlebar clamp' type top fork yoke for my 1974 350 mk 3, old age has forced me to ditch the clip ons and rearsets in favour of the std footrests and (lowish) handle bars. So now an unexpected new problem.....it seems to have become extremely difficult to get the bike onto the centre stand now with the handlebars. I have always found the stand on this bike a pig at the best of times and no matter how I approached it it was just hard work. A little roll back, lift the frame at the back under the seat, and heave up and back on the nearside clip on while pushing backwards with my leg against the rearset footrest seemed to be the only way I could do it.........bearing in mind I have been heaving this bike onto its stand like this now for 50 years (I think that's what has given me my bloody hernia). Is this just me being a 70 year old 9 1/2 stone weakling with now a swinging handle bar that I can't use to pull back with or what????????? Cheers, George

[JimF]

I'm 11 stone and 70 years, and it seems increasingly difficult to get my 250 on the center stand. I have clip-ons.

My center stand has a tang protruding to the left side that allows me to rest my foot on and pull rearward against my body weight. Does your center stand not have a tang to facilitate holding the bike in place on the ground?

Maybe switch to a side-stand?

[blethermaskite]

Yes, mine does have a 'tang' to stand on, but my stand will actually slide on the floor and not lift until I physically lift the back of the bike up over centre line of the stand pivot, I have always thought it was just a bad design but lived with it. I am wondering if I were to shorten the legs a bit would that make it easier? when on the stand now the back wheel is about three inch's off the floor.....it only need to be an inch of the floor to work ok....I think?
Cheers
Gerorge

[George]

Hi young George. At 80 found same problem lifting onto center stand on my 350 Road. I made a lifting bracket and fitted between top bolt of rear shock and seat fixing bracket. Being lower down I am able to lift rear using leg muscles while holding foot on stand. Works for me.
Three inches lift does seem a lot, just checked my Ducati's both about one inch clearance. Before you cut anything perhaps have timber packing under each wheel and try putting on stand
Good luck

[themoudie]

Aye "Young" George,

Being of the same age, but without hernia, I suspect is my advantage

Having binned the centre stand of the 450 MKIII back in 1976, or thereabouts, I do not have this affliction.

I am fortunate, in that I put a length of ⅜ rod through the centre stand pivot holes and physically lift the rear of the bike onto a homemade wooden stand, with two Surformed 'U' hollows in the uprights. However, I am 6'2" and 85Kg (12½ stone) wringing wet. Lifting 3m timber pulp lengths and digging holes for a living meant that I was lifting, with the thighs, it is the way to go. But, I understand that the hernia will get in the way of doing this.

I do have another MKIII frame, with a centre stand and can take measurements, if you should require that info.

When compared to my wifes 400lbs Honda Bros 400, or the Yamaha SRX600 Monoshock at 385lbs, the 450 MKIII is a lightweight, weighing in at about 300lbs and with less bulk and a lower centre of gravity as well. Only the Bros has a centrestand, it requires a good heave and application of my weight to the centre stand tang to get it up on the stand that I don't find it that stable! We only use the side stand when out and about, with a plastic puck beneath the foot on soft ground, as my wife finds the centre stand difficult to use, both for lifting and lowering the bike, due to it's weight, bulk and centre of gravity. Whilst she used to manage, without problems, loss of muscle tone, balance and reduction in height to 5'4", from 5'6" and being more mature than either of us have contributed to the change. The Mono only being fitted, with a side stand, only presents problems at the MoT, or in the workshop and I have my work arounds specific to it and it's twin shock earlier version that I also have; that too only has a sidestand.

Whilst shortening the stand legs might make using the stand easier, if there is any uneveness in the surface on which you are using it, the bike may be more unstable, especially if it is uneven, rather than the plush, level floor of your workshop.

I hope that you can sort your stand and yoursel', sooner rather than later.

All the best Bill

[blethermaskite]

Thanks Bill, how do you start the 450 without a centre stand?
Cheers,
George

[graeme]

Hello George,

RT 450 and 450 Scrambler, neither have a centre stand. Both are no harder to kick that the Desmo with a centre stand.

Re your hard to get on the centre stand,,, I agree with a previous comment that 3 inches off the ground is too high.
This would, I imagine, make it hard as you have to lift the bike higher.

Graeme

[themoudie]

Aye George,

Thanks Bill, how do you start the 450 without a centre stand?

Stand to the left-hand side of the bike, hold both bars, free the clutch by kicking over the engine, with the kickstart a couple of times, and with the clutch pulled in. Release clutch and exhaust valve lifter.

Now bring the piston up, with the kickstart, to TDC and with the fuel taps on and the enrichment valve on the AMAL MKII carburettor raised, with the exhaust valve lifter open, give the kickstart lever 2 to 3 good swings, so as to prime the cylinder, with air/fuel mixture.

Return the piston to TDC, with the exhaust valve lifter closed. Now with the exhaust valve lifter open, ease the piston over TDC, with gentle pressure on the kickstart lever. DO NOT SWING ON THE KICKSTART LEVER! Release the exhaust valve lifter.

Turn the ignition "ON" and then with a swinging kick to the bottom of the kickstart arc, turn the engine over. The engine should fire and run, slowly reduce the enrichment to zero, by lowering the enrichment valve and within 30 seconds the engine will idle at a steady 1,100 - 1,200 rpm.

If this procedure fails to start the engine, initially return to paragraph: "Now bring the piston up, ....." Repeat and the engine should run. If not, turn the ignition "OFF", lower the enrichment valve and with the valve lifter open give the kickstarter 5 to 6 swings, so as to purge the cylinder and then start the procedure at "Now bring the piston up, ....." again. If the engine refuses to fire you have "A problem Houston!" and will need to check fuel flow to the carb, fuel on the plug and spark at the plug.

Keep the weight of the machine resting on your right-hand thigh and feet apart, when attending to the fuel/enrichment levers.

Swing a leg over, engage gear and ride off on another jaunt, allowing the engine to warm through in the first 3 to 5 miles and then give some throttle.

This all reads like teaching my Grandmother to suck eggs, to the owner of a Ducati single of 50 years! But then yours being a 350 MKIII, I suspect that you have always just turned the fuel taps "On", tickled your AMAL MKI carb tickler until the fuel flowed, selected 2nd gear, pulled the piston back onto compression, set off at a jaunty canter, with the clutch pulled in and once up to a good gallop, launched yourself, side saddle onto the seat, dropping the clutch at the same time and been wafted off into the blue yonder on your magic carpet! This is still possible with the 450, but my balance and nerve for doing it on public roads isn't what it used to be !

When the 450's engine decides to cough or die at the traffic lights, as it can do on the odd occasion I usually just dismount and use the kickstart to get the piston to TDC, ease over with the valve lifter open, close the valve lifter and a good swinging kick restores operations. If not, the shove of shame to the nearest refuge follows. Starter button????

Having initially, learnt my kickstarting technique on various AMC singles, the latter being a '53 AJS 18S, and being right footed, I have never been able to adopt the left foot prod to start left-hand sided kickstart engines, I just become discombobulated and don't have the strength/co-ordination in that leg to do the job.

Good health, Bill

[blethermaskite]

Thanks again Bill, that's a very detailed set of instructions so the bit that I am missing here (I think) is the 'mighty thighs' as I mentioned above being a 91/2 stone weakling I was the one who always got sand kicked in his face.......except when on the Ducati.....then they couldn't catch me. Unfortunately I have never been able to start the 350 unless it was on the stand or as you rightly divined bump start the bugger. The late Mick Walker advised me nearly 50 years ago to remove and never use the ex valve lifter because it would introduce a stress point on the rocker and cause it to break ??????!!!!! so until a couple of years ago (when I refitted it) I needed a full body weight jump on the kickstart to fire it up, thankfully it has always been an easy starter and after fitting the Lucas rita ignition it was a really easy starter.........however I digress......I think I will cut a wack out of the centre stand legs to drop the whole plot closer to earth and make up and fit a lifting handle at the rear end and see how that goes. Or I might just copy a Rudge hand lever operated centre stand actuator which a child could operate
Cheers,
George

[themoudie]

Aye George,

I too heard tell of the valve lifter causing an indent in the exhaust rocker arm that could cause a stress fracture. Maybe on a race motor, but I don't have the nuts to rev' a 450 to 7,500rpm! 6,000rpm, maybe 6,500rpm, if I was feeling brave, would have been my limit. It has not caused me grief so far, with over 95,000 miles plus on the rocker.

So, the Rudge, or Vincent hand lever system it is to be then. From a hooligans boot scuffer, to a gentleman's convayence! You'll get the Concours d'Elegance brigade on your case, with that mod. Don't forget to post the dimensioned drawings in the Technical Section of the forum.

All the best and good health, Bill