Scrambler 250

[boobby]

Hey there all, so I picked this thing up a few weeks ago and finally have gotten to dig into it. I was hoping to some opinions on this thing from some of you fine folks.. The guy I bought it from thought it was a 74, but I think it is a little older than that. The badge on the front doesn't have the last number stamped on it just 197, so I at least know it is 1970 something. The bike is 6v with points as well
secondly the motor still has the "made in italy" on the oil pump side of the case, and the vin on the motor is "dm250" , it also does not match the vin on the frame. I thought that the mototrans bikes had "made in Spain " or just "ducati" on that cover. Didn't know if some of those still retained the "made in italy" or maybe this thing has an earlier motor. I haven't been in the cover to check out the pump gear material yet..
any help would be greatly appreciated

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= boobby ...
" The guy I bought it from thought it was a 74, "

____ The only year these '250 ROAD' Mototrans models were sold in the U.S., was for 1972 !



" I thought that the mototrans bikes had "made in Spain" "

____ That's always found on the tach.drive-cover (if it's the stock engine-part) !
__ If the engine is still the original, then it ought-to also still retain it's Mototrans cyl.head-casting with odd fin pattern cast next-to the in.port-flange.
If you don't have an Italian-cyl.head to compare with, then post a close-up picture showing the fin-pattern around the intake-port carb.mount area (for us to identify).


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[boobby]

Thanks DewCatTea-Bob for the help!.. it also looks like on the bike the points plate is spun 180 degrees and looks slightly different (fatter looking points set) which I thought was kind of funny. Don't know if it was just put on wrong if that is the way they are..
also for your viewing pleasure is a shot that was taken on my 68 putting it to some good use

[Jon Pegler]

Your machine has probably got Motoplat points fitted which are sometimes fitted 180 degrees different from their Italian cousins.
The 250 Road handbook only shows the standard Italian arrangement.
It doesn't make much difference. Just time accordingly

I think only the very late, post 1978, Mototrans Ducati singles had 'Made in Spain' cast into the timing cover.
Once Mototrans started producing widecase engines, including supplying the Bologna factory with 250s and 350s, they all seemed to have 'Made in Italy' cast into the timing cover.
Once the Italians stopped making singles, the timing covers mainly had 'Made in Spain' cast on instead.

Jon

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= boobby ...
" it also looks like
the points plate is spun 180 degrees
Don't know if it was just put on wrong if that is the way they are.. "

____ While Jon has no-doubt certainly seen way-more than I have,, all stock Mototrans motors I've seen with contact-points, (for some-odd reason) came with the AAU flipped-around & installed the other-way, and-so the points-plate also had to be rotated the 180-degrees as well (so that the ign.spark still gets timed for the correct TDC).



" also for your viewing pleasure is a shot that was taken on my 68 "

____ While your other pix weren't too bad,, this last posted-pic seems to really need some adjustment, so I've done so (as much as I could).



____ You've left me wondering if you've found the 'Made in Spain' where I had told you it ought-to be found !?
__ Also, since you also have an Italian-version for comparison,, did you notice the expected difference in fin-design between cyl.head-castings ?


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Ventodue]

The guy I bought it from thought it was a 74, but I think it is a little older than that.

I think you're probably right, going from the engine number. 250 Scrambler engine numbers start around 10451(Ian Falloon) ...

EDIT: WRONG - Ooops. Digit missing. Should be 104501, not 10451. Thanks to Jon Peglar for the correction! So please ignore the rest!

...making 11427 only 976 down the line.

Also your style of tacho drive cover is early: some time in 1972, it changed to the type in the attachment.

So (for the engine at least) 1970-71, maybe even 1969? And therefore very likely Bologna built.

P.s I quote Tom Bailey:
"Except for the 160, the early Italian-made 250 and 350 Scramblers may be the best buy in the world of vintage Ducatis". .

HTH

Craig

[boobby]

thanks for the info fellas and photo adjustments . it does have "made in spain" on the tachdrive cover but the finish on the aluminum doesn't match the rest of the motor.. i have an italian 450 head on my kitchen table at the moment, i am gonna compare the two heads this afternoon

[Jon Pegler]

Sorry Craig, I've got to disagree with you on this one.
I think the number 11427 should have another number on the end.
Those widecase 250 numbers are nearly always 6 digit numbers.
The ones that start 114, 115, and 116 are nearly always seen on Spanish machines.
The very late Bologna built bikes have numbers that start 113--- and date from 1974/5.
If you look at boobbys bike you will see it has Telesco forks and the Road model toolboxes, indicating that it is a Spanish 250 w/c Road.
The top bevel covers with the tacho drive confirms this, even though it's are a bit rough with the 'Made in Spain' cast into it.
Incidently, I am after one of those tacho covers, if anyone wants to exchange one for a late Italian one as per Craig's photo.
I would guess that Bob's first estimate of 1972 is not far off the mark.

Jon

[Ventodue]

Sorry Craig, I've got to disagree with you on this one.

Great, Jon! Absolutely no need to apologise ...

Ta for the info. on the engine numbers - this I did not know. And you're right - I goofed on the Falloon numbering, missing out a digit . Should have read "104501", not "10451".

So my turn to apologise now! Seems it's a genuine Spanish Road! (And thanks for the info on the likely year, Bob).

P.s Also, am I right in thinking that the Road didn't have the rear part of the frame turned up as on the Scrambler?

Ciao/un saludo

Craig