1968 250 MK3D rebuild - ex W/C Oil Pump

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machten
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby machten » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:37 am

V2 cam report is probably 3 weeks away, but no more.


Well, what can I say? What a load of rubbish that proved to be.

I have a little bit of an excuse. I remained concerned that I didn't have enough information to be sure that insufficient oil flow didn't contribute to the condition of the rockers that caused me to initiate this thread. Additionally, this concern lead me to take off the timing side cover to inspect the oil pump, which actually looked pretty good. I noticed however that the timing side end journal of the crank was very badly scored, and became concerned about oil bypass between the crank journal and the brass bush in the timing cover. On top of that, I am certain the the poor internal condition of my fuel tank has led to debris causing the float valve to dump fuel into the crankcase. So I decided to split the engine for a look and to get the timing side crank journal machined and a new timing cover bush made up.

I have a bad habit of "needing" to rebuild any engine of doubtful/unknown pedigree of any bevel I come to own. I always rationalise it the same way..."Well, if I rebuild it properly now, that engine will see me out of my riding days". I just seem to need an excuse, and the fact is, I enjoy it anyway. So the MK3D engine has been stripped and is being reassembled. I got a new original big end from Ian Gownaloch, so that's gone in. It would have needed a rebore and new piston and rings which would have taken it out to final size. For the same price I came across a brand new unused stock barrel, piston and ring set, so that's gone in too. All bearings seemed pretty good, in fact very good. Third gear (layshaft) dogs were pretty worn, the rest of the gearbox was in pretty good shape. (I wonder why?) I put in a new 3rd gear from IG.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, it has new original ducati valves and closer rockers and rebuilt openers.All top end bearing have already been replaced. I got new rocker bushes from Amici Dello Scrambler and put them in too. I was suspicious of the quality of the rebuilt openers hard chrome, as they had some small wear after just 400km, so I sourced a few of those from Amici. They look very good reproductions, but we’ll see.

Today I shimmed the desmos using the same cam I used before. (my friends stock Ducati B&W with the normal 4 holes rather than my 5 hole model). As per both my experience and wcorey's experience, TDC measurements are irrelevant. I’m yet to see a cam/rocker combination that doesn’t have a bind if you shim to “spec” at TDC. And I have 4 cams and two complete sets of rockers. And one of those cams is an original unused B&W.

I’m shimming this one a bit loose as it is a new build and I know I’m taking this cam out soon to try out the VeeTwo cam mentioned earlier in this thread. But for others reference, as a demonstration of how inaccurate the “mirror imaging” of opener-closer cam/rocker’s are. Here’s my figures from today…

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Note the differences between TDC total (unsprung) clearances and the Bind clearances.

All good fun!

Kev

machten
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby machten » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:31 pm

The unused B&W reference cam for my testing...

Image

Kev

machten
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby machten » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:05 pm

Progress is being made (slowly)....

Detailed examination of the dissassembled engine showed earlier wear than would be expected on what was clearly an otherwise fairly new crank pin and roller bearings. Not too bad, but trouble was starting. This combined with the sorry state of the rockers, the badly scored crank end journal, and the also sorry state of the previous sealant in the fuel tank (and consequently the pollution of the tank taps and the carb needle jet) seems to indicate to me that DCT Bob's early diagnosis of fuel contamination, combined with some oil bypass from the crank end journal were the significant contributing factors to the initally identified top end damage.

The crank journal end was machined...

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And a smaller ID bush to match for the cover was fitted. Static testing showed good good oil volume at the top end and bevels, so I'm now happy that's been dealt with.

New big end installed..

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The engine basically assembled...

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And in the frame...

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The twin filler tank is basically sorted too, on the home stretch now...

Kev

Rick
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:12 am
Location: Northern Plains, USA

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby Rick » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:26 pm

Nice work, did you start with a twin filler tank or convert a single filler? If you converted a tank it would be great to see some pictures of the process.
Rick

machten
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby machten » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:22 am

did you start with a twin filler tank or convert a single filler? If you converted a tank it would be great to see some pictures of the process.


Rick, you're way oversetimating my capabilities. :D The bike is a 68 twin filler M3D, so I've just had to clean up the inside of the tank. It had some rust and what looked like a previous poor attempt at applying some sealant. See here for details: http://www.motoscrubs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=711
Kev

machten
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby machten » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:13 pm

Edging ever closer...

Image

Image

All going to plan it will be "fire in the hole" tomorrow night.

Kev

Rick
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:12 am
Location: Northern Plains, USA

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby Rick » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:17 pm

Looks great, here's mine sitting in the driveway the day I traded for it this summer, and yes, my wife is a 'rock stacker'.
new350MK3D.jpg

I didn't try to start it- the guy I got it from had it in his basement for a long time, so over the winter I hope to clear it for takeoff.
Rick
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machten
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby machten » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:03 pm

That looks good Rick! Better be careful, though. If you started it there you might rattle those rock stacks loose with that pipe!

I fired up the bike tonight. It started first kick, which kinda pleased me. But it wouldn't run properly initially and sounded like it was starving for fuel. As it turned out when I took the plug out for a look the electrode was nearly closed, which caused my some concern that the piston might have hit it. Anyway, I adjusted it and put it back in and it now runs fine with a slightly high idle. I guess I must have knocked it closed putting it in or something.

I can't ride it until I get the seat pan sorted, but it all sounds spot on. I took the rocker covers off for a look at the top end oil situation and there was plenty getting up there, so that looks sorted too.

Kev
Last edited by machten on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Eldert
Posts: 805
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Hazerswoude Rijndijk Netherlands

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby Eldert » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:52 pm

Hi Kev

i can see in your pictures that you fitted a Mazzucelli brand rod . a word of caution here
the Mazzuccelli rod has the oiling hole in the small end in the 12 o clock position
original Ducati rods have 2 oiling holes at 10 en 2 a clock position

when used in anger that Mazzucelli rod can spit open at the top oiling hole



Eldert
Last edited by Eldert on Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

machten
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: W/C Oil pump

Postby machten » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:05 am

Hi Eldert,

Thanks for the warning (although it's somewhat disappointing to hear). The rod is the same as what came out of it. It's an aftermarket rod, alright. I looked on the box for a manufacturer name and could only see MdP. Both the original rod and this identical replacement have 3 oiling holes at 12, 4 and 8 o'clock. I've included a pic of the box. Is that one of those rods?

Image

Image

Kev


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