Gear selector lubrication

[wrinkleygit]

Hello again everyone,just returned from a day out to the local "Paignton Bike Festival" down here in not so sunny Devon only to have my rearset gear pedal shear off its mounting ( came home with roadside bodge ), so while I have some repair work to do on the rearset I wondered how often should you remove & repack the selector box with grease.At the moment all gears select OK & there do not appear to be any issues so is it better to leave well alone, none of my manuals give clear instructions on how to work on the mechanism once you have removed the outer chaincase cover, we are talking 350 N/C 5 speed in this particular case but I assume all models are similar, any thoughts on this, thanks ,mike b.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" any thoughts on this, "

____ As you reason, best to leave well enough alone, (assuming you've never had the back/inside-cover removed/off, before) !
__ Since your gears select okay, that then means that your shifter-box must 'clic/klak' (or perhaps more like clunk/clink, when the shifter-box is still mounted on the motor-case), as it does when it's working properly. ...
__ However when the internals get worn and/or the foot-lever return-spring gets weak, then it's probable that after the 'clic', the 'klak' then doesn't occur (without assisted lever movement).
That fairly common issue can possibly be adjusted-away by minor-adjustment of the eccentric-adjuster setting.
To adjust that setting for the desired results, press the foot-lever all the way down but, instead of letting the return-spring attempt to freely return the lever back to normal-position,, instead by hand, carefully allow the lever to SLOWLY return as far back as the return-spring tries to take it, and if the return-spring was then unable to cause the selector to return all the way back to the 'klak' position, then (after loosening the external 10mm lock-nut), slowly turn the adjuster-screw* just until the selector finally klaks. _ Then re-tighten the nut (without allowing the screw to turn along-with), and check that the selector will then clic/klak, both through up-shifting AND down-shifting.
(* The [eccentric-head] adjuster-screw only has one 360-degree turn of usable adjustment-range, so there's no use in turning it much over 270-degrees, either direction.)
Again, if your shifter-box selector is fully working -(clic/klak-ing) okay, then best to leave well enough alone, (as all the internals are not real easy to get all back together correctly, without some practice at it).
____ And putting too much grease inside the selector-box is not a good thing !


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[jbcollier]

Not very often but that begs the question, when was it last done?

[averydad]

Greetings once more.
In my quest to get my 67 Monza on the road I have recently (with Bob`s help) overcome the clutch adjustment problem.
After a trial run in which I ran up and down through the gears six or eight times with no issues, I had a throttle problem that caused me quite a panic.
The bike was shut down and coasted home. Upon fixing the throttle issue, I now am unable to select the desired gear.
I have guessed that the selector box or it`s adjustment was the problem and I found this post describing the selector box adjustment and the clunk- clack sounds. Before I touch the adjuster I will describe the problem with hope of getting some advise. I hope adjustment is my problem and nothing is broken

With the bike on the center stand, I sit on the right side and press the heel end of the selector with my hand into what should be 1st gear. At first I feel a solid resistance and the selector will not engage. If I rotate the rear wheel a little as I push down on the heel....the gear will engage with a clunk but no clack sound is then heard. When I push on the toe of the pedal the selector will return to neutral.

When in neutral if I push on the toe of the pedal to select 2nd gear, the gear engages with a clunk and the pedal returns by the spring and makes the clack sound as desired. However if I try to push the toe of the pedal down a second time to engage 3rd gear...I feel a solid resistance and no further gears will engage.

When I first found the trouble I started the enging and noticed it felt hard to engage 1st gear. When it did engage and I released the clutch the bike would stall. This happend several times. Finally I slipped the clutch enough and the bike lurched forward and bucked wildly. It seemed apparent I was in a higher gear than 1st.

I`m really surprised at the lack of instruction available in the shop manuals. Bob`s directions on adjusting the clutch arm were so simple and easy to follow, yet I could find nothing in the mauuals that even hinted at how to set up the clutch arm and cable. Likewise on the adjusting of the gear selector box eccentric.....I find nothing.
This forum is my only life line and is much apreciated !
Cheers,
Rick

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" I now am unable to select the desired gear. "

____ Because there's a fairly great chance of the dogs (on the gears) colliding atop of each-other (within a motor that's not running), ya really can't expect to shift through all the gear-settings, without also rolling your Duke back or forth.
__ My guess is that you've left the transmission set somewhere between the higher gears, and-so first thus need to get the gear/fork selector-drum rotated back-down into 1st.gear, before next proceeding-forth.
So if all is actually normal, then the process of repeated pressing-down of the heal-lever while the rear-wheel is rotated (with engine not running), should soon thereafter finally get the trans shifted-down into 1st.gear. _ And then the TRUE neutral should be EASY to find.



" I have guessed that the selector box or it`s adjustment was the problem "

____ But it's possibly not, and-so you don't really want to open this can-O-worms (unless you're certain it NEEDS to be).
This shifter-box topic was covered not too long ago - ( viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1125#p7608 ), so before we go-through this again, lets make-sure that your issue is not something as simple as I've just touched-on above.

I hope to get back to this further, later.

and I found this post describing the selector box adjustment and the clunk- clack sounds.

Before I touch the adjuster I will describe the problem with hope of getting some advise. I hope adjustment is my problem and nothing is broken

With the bike on the center stand, I sit on the right side and press the heel end of the selector with my hand into what should be 1st gear. At first I feel a solid resistance and the selector will not engage. If I rotate the rear wheel a little as I push down on the heel....the gear will engage with a clunk but no clack sound is then heard. When I push on the toe of the pedal the selector will return to neutral.

When in neutral if I push on the toe of the pedal to select 2nd gear, the gear engages with a clunk and the pedal returns by the spring and makes the clack sound as desired. However if I try to push the toe of the pedal down a second time to engage 3rd gear...I feel a solid resistance and no further gears will engage.

When I first found the trouble I started the enging and noticed it felt hard to engage 1st gear. When it did engage and I released the clutch the bike would stall. This happend several times. Finally I slipped the clutch enough and the bike lurched forward and bucked wildly. It seemed apparent I was in a higher gear than 1st.

I`m really surprised at the lack of instruction available in the shop manuals. Bob`s directions on adjusting the clutch arm were so simple and easy to follow, yet I could find nothing in the mauuals that even hinted at how to set up the clutch arm and cable. Likewise on the adjusting of the gear selector box eccentric.....I find nothing.
This forum is my only life line and is much apreciated !
Cheers,
Rick

[Eldert]

Hi Rick

there are 2 ways of mounting the selectorbox to the case , the correct way and 180 degrees off .
when mounted 180 degrees wrong you only have a few gears you can engage .
i suggest you check this

Eldert

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" there are 2 ways of mounting the selectorbox to the case , the correct way and 180 degrees off . "

____ To expand/elaborate on exactly what Eldert means...
It's possible to install the shift-box/eng.cover onto the motor-case with it's shifter-mechanism out-of-sync with the internal shifter-drum/fork-selector, as it's possible for the drum's nose (protruding from the motor-case) to fit into the eng.cover's shifter-mechanism's protruding-slot either in normal-phase or 180-out.
However in order for such a mismatch to occur when installing the eng.cover, the shifter-mechanism had to have been played-around with after being removed from it's place against the motor-case, thus-then POSSIBLY taking the shifter-mechanism out of sync with the motor's transmission.
__ To avoid such mismatching, the motor's transmission and the shifter-box should both be left set in their neutral-positions when installing the eng.cover.
But for the mismatch-situation to have any chance of occurring in the first-place, one has to have done some thoughtless & coincidental happenstance of circumstances in order to get the eng.cover to fit back-on the motor-case. _ In other-words, such mismatching doesn't happen very easily !
__ Also, since it was claimed that the transmission was working through ALL the gears just prior to the development of the new shifting-issue, it's then NOT POSSIBLE for the shifter-mechanism & the transmission to become out of sync ! _ As such a possibility can only POSSIBLY occur only when the eng.cover is removed from the motor-case.
So that's why I-myself had-not brought-up this (likely confusion-instigating) possibility, for Rick's consideration, (since I assume he didn't remove the eng.cover AGAIN [and then mess around with it],, did you, RICK ? ).


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[averydad]

I did not play around with the selector between the time it all worked fine and when I developed the current problem. I did this morning remove the side cover to see if there was an obvious issue and saw nothing out of place. I do understand what Eldert was telling me but I can`t see how this could be the problem.
I also tried to down shift the mechanism as Bob suggested. I first tried to do it with my hand and the duke on the center stand. I turned the back wheel with one hand and tried to down shift with the other....no luck. Then sitting on the bike I tried to roll it back and forth while stepping at the heel end of the shifter to downshift. Again no luck. It feels as if the shifter goes into 1st gear. I feel a SOLID resistance if I try to downshift further, no movement at all. Then when I tap the toe it easily clicks back into neutral. Again I press on the toe and it will shift into the next gear with the clunk - clack sound. After that I can not get the pedal to again move to the next higher gear even as I sit on the bike and rock it back and forth.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Since this topic-matter has already been covered elsewhere in more detail (mostly towards other aspects) at least twice before, I'll now go-over the following aspect -['clic/clak'] somewhat lightly, (since I'm low on time for now).
____ While "clik" & "clak" may not be the perfect words for describing the sounds made by the shifter-box, they are the two words which I choose to use for the following process-description here...
__ A properly working shifter-box makes two notable sounds when it's operated. _ When it's foot-lever is pressed fully downward, it then makes a 'clik' (as it's locator-ball gets pushed into one of the indentation-holes of the gear-setting selector-wheel).
Then-next when the foot-lever is released,, the lever's return-spring then moves the lever & it's connected shaft's internal-end along with a selector-fork, back to normal-position,, and along-with that action, the selector-fork's spring pushes the fork back-down against the selector-wheel, which then makes the 'clak' sound. _ That then has the selector-mechanism properly setup & ready for the next gear-shift action of the foot-lever.
__ However, it's possible for the foot-lever return-spring to not be able to fully return the internal-mechanism's selector-fork all the way back far enough to produce the 'clak' function, and thus that then leaves the selector-mechanism in an unfinished state of intended action, and therefore unable to continue-on & produce the next gear-shift action.
__ To solve that uncompleted return-action (and thus-then produce the 'clak'), you could use your foot to HELP the foot-lever's return-spring get the fork-mechanism fully-back into normal-position (and thus-then ready for the next shift-action),, or, you could try messing-around with the adjustment-screw...
Meaning that slotted-screw with a 10mm nut, as seen on the outside of the eng.cover, just below the foot-lever.
So after having pressed-down & released the foot-lever (and only obtaining just the 'clik'), then with the adj.nut loosened, you can then try turning the screw slowly (in either direction) until the 'clak' is next heard. _ Then once you obtain the missing 'clak', then immediately-STOP turning the adj.screw any further, and lock-down it's nut. _ Cuz if you turn the adj.screw a little too far (past the preferred-point), it's then possible you'll rob-peter-to-pay-paul (so to speak), and cause another new (opposite) issue while well-solving your initial issue.
Note that turning the adj.screw (which simply has an eccentric-head), beyond 180-degrees will-not produce any further effect, (as it's eccentric-head inherently has limited adjustability and-so merely returns-back to it's starting-point every 360-degrees of rotation), so don't expect any further-rotation to accomplish anything to any greater degree.
__ If successfully adjusted, then hopefully* you will have solved your 'clic/clak' (without the 'clak') issue, and have properly adjusted the shifter-mechanism so that the foot-lever return-spring can then manage to get the selector-fork further centered so that it can then 'clak' and thus become prepared for further normal 'clik/clak' shifting-action.
(* I stated "hopefully" because, if your internal shifter-parts have become TOO worn, then it may no-longer be possible to obtain the desired 'clik-clak' for BOTH up-shifting AND down-shifting, [regardless of the adj.screw's setting].)


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

PS. Note that Ive added a link to my previous-posting, found in the 4th post above this one. _ (I don't think I'm going to finish that post any time soon now.)