Headlamp removal

Ducati single cylinder motorcycle questions and discussions, all models. Ducati single cylinder motorcycle-related content only! Email subscription available.
Moderator: Morpheus

Moderator: ajleone

ftripodi
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:56 pm

Headlamp removal

Postby ftripodi » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:33 am

Hi All,

Trying to tidy up a few things on the 250 NC and can not remove the headlamp from the housing.

Have removed the bottom screw and given the chrome surround a few taps but nothing and even tried to leaver it off from the bottom but no luck.

Any advice would be appriceated.

Frank

JimF
Site Admin
Posts: 1124
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:49 am

Re: Headlamp removal

Postby JimF » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:23 pm

I don't think there's anything holding it on now save for friction or maybe a couple decades of some kind of inter-metallic bonding. If you are concerned about scratching paint you might try using a guitar pick (or two) as a way of getting into the crease between and applying leverage between the bucket and the ring.

I've never tried this but maybe a hair dryer used to heat the chrome ring would create enough expansion to break the bond without harming anything. Also try rotating the ring a little clockwise and counter-clockwise to break the bond.

MotoMike
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:40 am

Re: Headlamp removal

Postby MotoMike » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:37 am

I've noticed that if the ring got deformed at some point, once forced on they can be tenacious. On the bottom there are two tabs sticking down, the one attached to the ring has a 90 degree bend in it and the one on the shell has a straight tab. I've put a suitable tool in between them and pried them apart. that way you are applying force on the insides of those tabs where you won't be in danger of making up the ring or shell. use the mechanics touch though, don't gorilla hand it.
Mike

ftripodi
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Headlamp removal

Postby ftripodi » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:15 am

Thanks Guys,

Jim have to say that the guitar pics worked a treat.

Mike had to use a screw driver wrapped in cloth.

Needed both methods and 2 of us to finally get it off and when it finally came off it was a sealed beam.
Headlamp1.JPG


Then i found this!!
Headlamp3.JPG


The Ign Switch was well some what bare....
Ign Switch 7.JPG


Did some more investigation and it would appear that the ignition is via a toggle switch set up from a 12 volt battery straight to the coil and a kill switch on the bars.

So I will be seeking advice on how to wire the bike up with all parts working and a charging circuit for the battery.

What the bike has:
12 volt battery
12 volt coil
Points & condensor
3 wires coming from the alternator (orange, white insulated & black), the wires are not connected to anything and run under the seat and have been tapped off.
Brake switch


Have some initial voltage readings from each wire
Orange 5 volts
White insulated 12 volts
Black 3 volts

Has no rectifier either.

All assistance will be much appreciated

Frank
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by ftripodi on Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

JimF
Site Admin
Posts: 1124
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:49 am

Re: Headlamp removal

Postby JimF » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:06 pm

The previous owner was likely running the motorcycle as a "constant loss" ignition system, meaning that the 12-volt battery powers the ignition system and the battery is not recharged during engine running conditions.

When the battery is drained too low of power the motorcycle goes dead. No amount of push starting will get it going. It will need a battery recharge or a fresh battery.

On a side note, some batteries are not intended to be fully drained and the constant draining can lessen the amount of power they can store.

Back to your situation, the headlight was disconnected (I see no wires) because it is the most power hungry item on the motorcycle. So the previous owner rode without a headlight (illegal where I live) so as to extend the amount of time the motorcycle could run on the ever-draining battery.

The previous owner probably put the bike on the charger after every ride.

You have some work ahead of you. Presumably the ignition coil has been swapped to a 12-volt coil. Check the headlight, it may still be a 6-volt unit and will not tolerate 12-volts.

Your alternator may still be a 6-volt unit, so if you are going to put it back together in such a way as to run the headlight and re-charge the battery while you ride you will either have to swap back to a 6-volt coil and 6-volt battery to match the alternator and headlight, or swap the headlight (and taillight bulbs too) to 12 volts and follow one of Dew-Cat-i Bob's threads on getting 12 volts from your 6-volt alternator.

In either case you will have to add a rectifier/regulator to convert the AC of the alternator to DC (rectification) and to fix the resulting voltage to a desired amount (regulation.)

This is all more time consuming than it is difficult. I think you can get plenty of help on this forum.

The other option is that some Ducatis were, from the factory, battery-less. The ignition coil was designed to run right off the AC from the alternator. Light bulbs don't care if the power is AC or DC. In these bikes there is no battery, and no regulator/rectifier.

That bucket is sure clean on the inside!

Jim

Jordan
Posts: 1380
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:29 am

Re: Headlamp removal

Postby Jordan » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:52 am

Regarding your charging system, I know someone who had a narrowcase 250 Monza for many years - he was 14 when he first got it. One day the regulator stopped working, so he disconnected it and it worked fine that way. He worked for a Ducati importer so must have had advice on this. I don't know what power his bike's alternator put out, but it must have been well matched to the loads from the headlamp etc and his normal usage. Otherwise his battery would have given trouble from overcharging - he said this never happened. The rectifier was needed though, and I think he used the one within the regulator unit. Anyway, if you have a dead or missing regulator, this might be worth researching some more. It's another option and might save some dough and keep your bike's electrics simple - always nice.
I'm not sure it would work on widecase bikes with more powerful alternators.
Trivia: 250 Monza was cheaper to buy new in the '70s than a Honda CB250, from Fraser's in NSW.

Jordan

joe46ho
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:45 pm
Location: Erlanger, Ky
Contact:

Re: Headlamp removal

Postby joe46ho » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:32 pm

Frank, The best thing for you to do would be to write down, then post what your intentions for this motorcycle are. Like will you ride it daily, rarely, show only...etc. Also do you want it to be totally original ? Battery, or Batteryless ? If its a 65 it has the wrong h/l bucket on it for example. depending on many factors you can go many different directions. Jim eluded to some previous write ups by bob and others on this subject. But the reason I am saying this is because, for example, if you just want to do the most with what you have, keep it 6 volt, use the aprilia key switch you have (very rare part by the way) and you arent worried about it being "all original" you really dont need to spend much money, you can buy rectifiers from many sources, this is what i bought.

www.newark.com
part # 06M7446

You also do not need the terminal strip/board that you are missing in the headlamp, but if you really want it, domiracer sells it, but they have them listed under the wrong number, they have a big box of them...

On the stator, you will probably need to remove it to replace the wiring, bob could guide you through testing it, but honestly its probably no mistake that its unhooked, it probably needs the wiring replaced... If you do remove it for repair, make sure you identify if its a 28w, or 40w model.

Your in Australia already, so you could even remove it, and send it to road and race, to swap it for a rewound unit, with a aftermarket (honda type) regulator/rectifier if you so desire.
(page 32, road and race catalog)

reproduction ignition coils can be purchased from domiracer, and many other sources. same with bulbs, and warning lights.

On the headlamp itself, if you want to go the cheap route you can use a sealed beam, just a different one, but if you really are set on buying a reflector, bulb holder, lens, and lens seal it can get very pricey. one tip is domi racer sells the cev 130mm bulb holders cheap, but they are out of the reflectors. the cev parts will fit the aprilia housing, and are usually cheaper, if you can find them.

The aprilia 59n headlamp switch that mounts on the bars is ungodly expensive if you can even find one, so if yours is missing, i would either use something different all together, like a cev period correct switch, or a reproduction aprilia switch like the later widecase ducatis use (available at domiracer/eurojamb/guzzino/etc...)

I think you have the tailight covered, if not they can be found for guzzi's aermacchi's etc, sometimes with the wrong lens. but the same lamp housing...

The small terminal strips ( mounted on the frame near the battery tray 3-terminal type, and on the rear fender for the brake lamp 2-terminal type, can be found almost anywhere, even home depot or any hardware store...but a lot of times they are white, and you want black ones...they come in a long strip usually and you cut off what you need...

The original brake lamp switch can be found, if yours is missing, but if you are not worried about originality, you can find cev switches meant for a benelli i think fairly cheap. hopefully you have the original one, there are a few types, normally open, normally closed, widecase, narrowcase, etc...

thats about it, there really isnt that much to the electrics on the scrambler you have.
but like i said, if you post what your intentions are, you can get more specific info on here, as to exactly what parts you need, and how to hook everything up and terminate your connections...

All that said...If you want it as simple as possible, you could run no battery, no rectifier, an a/c coil, factory type bulbs, and a simple headlamp switch. If it is a 65, thats all it would have had from the factory anyway, it also would not have had that keyswitch you have pictured.

You may want to consider pulling the ignition points plate off also, to see if it has the AA367B (for batteryless ignition) , or the AA359 advance unit (for battery ignition) you might even find someone removed the weights, and set it up for full advance (locked)

Hope you arent to confused yet, and this helps...
Joe
Too many projects to list...
12 Ducati singles currently

ftripodi
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Headlamp removal

Postby ftripodi » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:34 am

Thanks Joe

I will do exactly as you have said.

Write up my intentions for the bike and then post it.

I have spokem to Phil at Road and Race and he has given me some sound advice.

The taillight lense arrived today and have ordered a period correct H/L switch
Which should arrive in the next couple of days.

Frank

Bevel bob
Posts: 1042
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:01 am
Location: Bromley Kent UK.

Re: Headlamp removal

Postby Bevel bob » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:40 am

Hi Frank, For a bike that you want to ride on the road, be able to start without too much kickback and get home in the mist or dark (the UK!!) i would fit a battery, a std coil , the battery ign type advance and retard unit,and a modern rectifier/control unit , 12volt mod to the alternator is simple (my way!) although the simple mod does not give high output.Works for me.

ftripodi
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Headlamp removal

Postby ftripodi » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:19 am

Hi Guys,
After careful consideration and a long think about how I want to use the bike I have decided that the bike needs to be reliable and free of most issues.

I will do some testing on the alternator to see if any of the wiring is giving readings at all. Once this is done I will be re-wiring the total bike from front to back.

The brake switch that is on the bike is original so that's a plus, need to get a new headlight os the 6 volt sealed beam has passed its use by date.

Once I have worked out if the alternater is good or not then the decision to go to 12 volt system or re wound unit from Road and Race will be made, but Phil has given a really good price to convert to 12 volt and elec ignition so that may be an option as well.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Frank


Return to “Ducati Singles Main Discussions (& How to Join)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 40 guests