Cure for SlowGlow-BrakeLight of "40watt" models

[DewCatTea-Bob]

Cure for SlowGlow-BrakeLight of "40watt" models


____ The purpose of this thread is to address the sorry excuse for a brake-light that was stock on DUCATI NarrowCase Mark-3 & pre-1966 Scrambler models... Specifically, the wiring set-up that Ducati used in an attempt to power-up the stronger light-filament (within a 6-volt light-bulb) that's intended to brighten the tail-lamp when-ever the brakelight-switch has been activated.

____ The following post-script is from under the thread-TOPIC titled: "Systems to Brighten Dim Lights on Alt.Powered models" .....

By Desmoto-M.3 : ...
" One other thing I've noticed and bothers me, is that when the brake light is activated, the tail light actually gets dimmer for at least a second, before the brake light gradually makes the tail light get any brighter than it was when just the tail light bulb was lit! The transition seems so slow that you can't really tell for sure when the brake light has fully lit up. And once it's had time to finally get turned on as bright as it goes, the only way to be really sure that the brake light was even really on, is when you see it go off !
Is that normal too? Or is that strangeness caused by some kind of short somewhere?


____ The stock power set-up on these models is by an ALTERNATOR -(NOT a "magneto"!), which has two separate (single-winding) power-coils - one (grounded) power-coil (with a RED-wirelead attached) for just powering the head & tail lights, and the other power-coil (with a YELLOW-wirelead attached) for primarily running the ignition, and when called-upon, also power the brake-light (with it's attached WHITE-wirelead).
__ The power-coil that's used for the ignition-system, makes a whole lot more power than the ign.system actually makes use of ! _ And (as Ducati has it), all that excess power is TOTALLY WASTED!! ...
You see that standard 2-pole power-coil is subjected to 4 magnetic-pole reversals per revolution of the alt.rotor -(which carries 4 separate magnets), thus two complete AC-cycles occur for each 360-degrees that the crankshaft rotates! _ And since a 4-stroke engine requires 720-degrees to complete it's 'Otto-cycle', then that also means that the alternator completes 4 AC-cycles per completed 'four-stroke-cycle' of the engine!
Now since each AC-cycle has 1 positive & 1 negative pulse of Direct-Current type electrical-juice, that means that there are 8 DC power-pulses (of electrical-juice) per completed 4-stroke/Otto-cycle! - (That's one pulse of DC-power every 90-degrees of crankshaft-rotation!) _ And since the stock ignition-system only makes use of a portion of just 1 of those 8 power-pulses, that means that the other entire 7 power-pulses (per Otto-cycle), are completely wasted, (with roughly 5 of them shorted directly to ground, through the ign.points!) !
____ Most everyone of us has had a chance (in a science-classroom) to try hand-cranking some kind of electrical-juice producer that's similar to the alternators in our DUKEs... So you were probably allowed to try cranking the demo-device -(often referred to as a "dynomo" by the Italians), first with no load, then with a low-wattage light-bulb connected, and then again with either multiple low-watt bulbs or a single high-wattage bulb (or even with a 'short-circuit'),, so that you could feel how difficult it is to crank the "dynamo" device when it has to power-up various loads.
__ Well guess what! ... That's the very-same type of resistance that your engine has to overcome when it's alternator has to power your ignition & lights systems!! _ And the power-drain situation that we're dealing with (in the case of the models being covered) here, is the worst because most all of the produced power is SHORT-circuited directly to ground! _ Plus the rest of the power (that's produced by the power-coil involved), is just passed through the ign.coil to ground, which is about the next closest thing to a short-circuit, also!
__ So you see, when I tell you how to solve that common brake-light issue, you could use my advice to effectively kill-two-birds-with-one-stone!
____ So what needs to be done to accomplish the goal of making the brake-light behave as a brake-light should,, is to ground the WHITE-wirelead to the grounding-point where the ign.coil is mounted, and connect the YELLOW-wirelead to a pair of power-diodes -(rated at 6-amps & 100-Peak-Inverse-Volts, [minimum!])...
The two connections to the pair of diodes should be to the base -(anode) of the first diode, and to the point -(cathode) of the second diode.
Now each diode will only allow just 4 DC-pulses (of the 8 pulses per Otto-cycle) to get though... the first-diode will supply only positive-pulses, (and the second-diode will supply only negative-pulses)! _ Therefore another wire that's connected to the opposite end -(cathode) of the first-diode, could be also connected to the POS.post of a battery for keeping it charged,, with the use of the 'pulsating-DC' type juice (that's derived from ALL the positive-pulses which the alternator's ign.power-coil produces).
The charged battery can then be tapped for (normal) INSTANT & full lighting of the brake-light filament! - An important occurrence, I'm sure we all agree on!
__ Now 1 of the 4 negative-pulses (per Otto-cycle), supplied by the second-diode, could be used by the ignition-system to produce it's spark. _ Thus this new wiring set-up will only waste just the 3 leftover negative power-pulses, (instead of 7power-pulses, per Otto-cycle)! _ (Therefore that's like getting 4 pulses of FREE power-juice, [for charging a battery with]!)
__ Now for those of you who correctly followed all of this info thus far, you should now be wondering about the following 'What-if'...
What if it turns-out that it was one of those 4 (positive) power-pulses which are now diverted to the battery, that the ignition-system had depended-on to produce it's spark!? ...
Well actually, that could indeed be a 50/50 possibility!
If it's found that there's no spark with this modified set-up (as it is), then there's one of two options which could be used to get around such a matter... You could EITHER choose to use a 'Positive-ground' -(like Brit-bikes use, instead of the standard NEGative-ground battery-system), OR,
or pull the alt.rotor & reinstall it (back on the crankshaft) rotated 90-degrees (in either direction) from where it was previously pressed-on to the shaft (by the factory!).
So IF one of these two options (for correcting such a matter) turns-out to actually be required, then one OR the other, will correct the matter, (along with swapping connections for the two separate diode-output wires -[which are intended for battery and ign.coil wiring], ONLY if choosing the POSitive-ground option, of course).
____ Any questions? - Please ask!


Your DUKE-Expert,
DCT-Bob

[Desmoto-M.3]

This all seems very enlightening Bob, especially the part about how the alternator must cause the engine to waste some of it's drive power.

I must have been absent the day my highschool science teacher explained what his board with the lightbulbs and cranking device was for. But i do remember one day when we had a substitute teacher who let everyone in class play with whatever we found in the teacher's closet, and a classbuddy got out a board with a heavy cranking device attached along with switches and a couple of strange looking clear lightbulbs.
The sub told us it was for showing a scaled down version of what creates electricity for the Electric Company's power station.
I played with that setup for a minute, and found it's crank lever to be real easy to turn with both lights turned off, and just a little harder to crank with the small bulb turned on. But the crank really got a lot harder to turn with the large bulb turned on, and so i could not crank it over fast enough to make it go any brighter than a wavering glow by it's extra long filliment!
From that experience, I would figure that cranking lever could not even be cranked if the thing had to be connected to some kind of a short circuit.
So i hate to think that my Mark 3 has to waste so much of it's torque power like that while spinning it's alternator to power it's own ignition!
Is it really as bad as that?
I also wonder why you are the only one i know who claims it's not a "magneto"? I have noticed everyone else uses that name rather than "alternator", like my owner's manual states it.
Do you have any good explaination for that? Could'nt it just be that both names are more or less equally correct? Or do you know of any particular major difference?

I'm sure I'll have to read all of this post of yours again another time. But to get started with the more pertanent questions i have so far, I would first like to know if i could just more simply use one of those fullwave rectifier blocks which you've mentioned in another thread, instead of the two power diodes which this conversion to battery needs.
And in either case, could i possibly choose to have a 12 volt battery using your charging method on my narrowcase Mark 3 ?

I've been hoping that you would explain more details about how my Mark 3's dim headlighting could be improved as well.
So could you please detail any modification differences between my 40 watt and the 28 watt system which you covered in the other thread?
By the way, could'nt the "WHITEwrielead" which originally has been used to power the brakelight, be used for anything other than just grounding directly to the frame? Like, power the taillight, so then whatever power that's made for the headlight doesn't also have to be shared with the tailight. Just an idea i thought of to help my dim headlight.


Thank You for any help!
Ken

[captpaul]

My local Ducati guru told me 35 years ago,1 when the old timers raced, they ran total loss to omit alternator drag on engine,more speed! 2 If my tail lite burns out, to get home flip the toggle on the tail lite to provide ground.I don't know why
ducati made such marvelous engines,but use such poor quality power generating systems, junk jap bikes back in the 60's had bright lites, and very few electrical problems

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" This all seems very enlightening Bob, especially the part about how the alternator must cause the engine to waste some of it's drive power. "

____ That's one of the reasons why many racers employ a 'Total-Loss System' -(the use of nothing other than a pre-charged battery), so as to be able to get as much of the engine's power to the rear-wheel as possible!


" From that experience, I would figure that cranking lever could not even be cranked if the thing had to be connected to some kind of a short circuit.
So i hate to think that my Mark 3 has to waste so much of it's torque power like that while spinning it's alternator to power it's own ignition!
Is it really as bad as that? "

____ If that cranking-device had a bunch of U-shaped magnets with a wire-wound armature which your cranking would cause to spin, and that 'dynomo' had brushes to pick-up the produced electrical-juice,, then it was a 'generator' that's not the same as your Mark-3's alternator. _ However in either case, the consumption of electrical-juice (from either such source), is always going to cause such resistance and in turn cost you, (by burning a bit more fuel) ! _ (Although it's my understanding that an alternator is somewhat more efficient than a generator.)


" I also wonder why you are the only one i know who claims it's not a "magneto"? I have noticed everyone else uses that name rather than "alternator", like my owner's manual states it.
Do you have any good explaination for that? Could'nt it just be that both names are more or less equally correct? Or do you know of any particular major difference? "

____ Since both alternators & magnetos were long in existence before I was educated about them, I suppose that it's possible that the name "magneto" was once accepted for referring to alternators. - (Heck, even I used to use the word "magneto" in place of 'alternator',, but only cuz the older guys did!) _ But anyone who bothers to look-over both types of electrical-devices, could easily see a notable difference! ...
Assuming that we're all familiar with the 'alternator' type of device used on our DUKEs, if any of us were to look-over a "magneto" such as those once used on motorcycles such as old Harleys & Brit-bikes, then it would be seen that they're considerably different from what our DUKEs have! ...
To begin with, a 'magneto' is more like a DC-generator which produces pulsed DirectCurrent! _ And if that's not sufficient enough of a difference from an alternator, (for those who still think 'MAGNETO'), then what really makes a true-magneto device stand-out, is that it uses contact-points to time it's DC-pulses through it's very-own built-in HighTension-coil, of which it's secondary-coil DIRECTLY supplies sparking-juice for the sparkplug! _ No 'alternator' unit does that! _ (Otherwise our DUKEs would have another cable -[HighTension type] coming out from the left-crankcase & directly connected to the sparkplug!)
__ I myself believe that the reason why so many people came to start calling the DUCATI's alternator a "magneto" instead,, is cuz back in the early days, DUCATIs were always handled by dealers who had already been involved with Brit-bikes (with true-magnetos) for many years prior,, and so they simply began referring to the ignition-setup used on some DUCATI-models (which didn't use a battery for their ignition-system), as "magneto" powered. - (Not exactly correctly of course !)
And once that common misuse of the word 'magneto' got well spread-around (by those who should've known better, in the first place), then larger numbers of people have ever-since assumed that "magneto" is the correct word/name to use. -
(Sorta like the same as how many people often refer to their 'MAC-computer' as their "PC",
or how it's come to be that a car with a manual-trans is still referred-to as an "auto". )


" I would first like to know if i could just more simply use one of those fullwave rectifier blocks which you've mentioned in another thread, instead of the two power diodes which this conversion to battery needs. "

____ YES, indeed you could! _ That would make for a tidy installation,, and might even be cheaper as well, (despite including two extra internal diodes).
But of-course you would not be wiring it up in a way as it was made to be! ... You would have to connect your original YELLOW-wirelead to either (or both) of the FW-rectifierBlock's AC-inputs, and then (electrically)- connect the FW-rect.block's POS.terminal to the POS.post of your battery, and, connect the FW-r.block's NEG.terminal directly to the ign.coil's ign.points-terminal -(as normally done).
(Depending of-course on your alt.rotor's [50/50] preset phase-timing,, if you end-up with no ign.spark, then you may wish to swap connections between the yellow & white alt.wire-leads [if wishing to use a negative-ground setup for your battery].)


" could i possibly choose to have a 12 volt battery using your charging method on my narrowcase Mark 3 ? "

____ Since the involved coiled-windings (of the power-coil which was intended to power the ign.system) are more inclined for lower current & higher voltage, (as compared to the windings of the power-coil intended for the main-lights), the answer is certainly 'yes' ! _ However, keep in mind that a 6-volt battery would be more likely to receive charging-juice -(DC.pulse-peaks) during slightly lower RPMs!


" I've been hoping that you would explain more details about how my Mark 3's dim headlighting could be improved as well.
So could you please detail any modification differences between my 40 watt and the 28 watt system which you covered in the other thread? "

____ Yeah, I'll get to that but, I'm thinking that info would be better placed within another separate thread.


" could'nt the "WHITEwrielead" which originally has been used to power the brakelight, be used for anything other than just grounding directly to the frame? Like, power the taillight, so then whatever power that's made for the headlight doesn't also have to be shared with the tailight. Just an idea i thought of to help my dim headlight. "

____ Well that may seem like a worthy idea -(making the headlight brighter by letting it have ALL the power-juice -[that's meant for both lights], just for itself),, BUT, unlike with the 28-watt set-up, the WHITE-wirelead of the "40-watt" alternator's power-coil -(that's intended for ignition & brake-light), has no power-juice available between it & 'ground' !
(This is just one example of how it's easy to get such things confused between the two SIMILAR but DIFFERENT alt.stators.)
Besides, even with the taillight handled another way, so that the headlight could be fed ALL of the supplied AC-juice,, you'd still end-up with a dim-headlight near bottom-range revs! - (Although the actual RPM would be ever-so-slightly lower, for the same amount of headlight-brightness. - [But ya really couldn't tell the difference unless ya could look at a side-by-side comparison!].)

____ I'll try to get to the method for battery-powered head & tail lighting for use with the '40watt-system', within the next few days.
But keep in mind that the needed modification requires getting at the alt.stator!


DUKE-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[Desmoto-M.3]

Thanks a lot Bob!

I woke up earlier than i needed to this morning, so i thought of spending my extra time posting my latest thoughts now.

In another thread you indicated a differrent type of brakelight switch would be needed. Of course I would have expected there to be all sorts of brakelight switches which were different phisically, but i gather from what you posted, Ducati must have used switches which were different in some electrical way?
Could you please suggest exactly what i will need to use for a switch to work my brakelight with a battery?

I also wonder about the toggle switch on the taillight shell. I've noticed other models which use a battery, don't have the switch.
I gather the toggle switch is needed for the 40 watt system for the same reason as why it's stock type of brakelight switch is. Right?
So after i complete all the wiring changes i need to do by following your modification method for using a battery, would there still be any use for that switch's funtion even though your wiring method requires the use of a different type of brakelight switch?

The last thing i need to know for now is, is this method of yours for charging a battery for powering the brakelight, going to be completely compatable with your method for improving the dim headlight problem which my Mark 3 has at low rpm?

Thanks again,
Ken

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" In another thread you indicated a differrent type of brakelight switch would be needed. Of course i would have expected there to be all sorts of brakelight switches which were different phisically, but i gather from what you posted, Ducati must have used switches which were different in some electrical way? "

____ While all the models which use battery-juice (to light the brake-lamp) use a normal type of switch to COMPLETE a circuit (when the brake-lever activates the switch), the special switch that's used on the models which employ the "40-watt" system, does the OPPOSITE of that! ... THAT special-switch always has it's circuit-contacts connected, and so it's circuit is UNcompleted with the use of the brake-lever.
That unusual type of switch is employed because it's needed to keep the WHITE-wirelead shorted to 'ground' -(of the frame), so that it's involved power-coil's other end -(connected to the YELLOW-wirelead) can keep the ignition running.
When that switch gets prevented from completing it's 'short-circuit' to 'ground' (by use of the brake-lever), then the power-juice (that's supplied by the ignition's power-coil) is diverted away (from the short to 'ground'), and instead has to take the provided path to the brake-light where it then can finally reach 'ground' in the tail-lamp's grounded shell.


" Could you please sugjest exactly what i will need to use for a switch to work my brakelight with a battery? "

____ Well if you can't obtain a stock brake-light switch from a battery-powered model, (which would be a straight bolt-on replacement!), then I'd suggest trying to set up a suitable mercury-switch, to do the job. _ Similar switches -(think: rolling ball-bearing), are used on big Jap-bikes to determine whether they're upright... And just as such switches can sense when a bike has fallen-over, (and then kill the ignition-circuit to stop the motor),, ya could similarly use one, (properly situated), to complete it's circuit during deceleration -(the only time when ya really need a brake-light turned-on)!


" I also wonder about the toggle switch on the taillight shell. I've noticed other models which use a battery, don't have the switch.
I gather the toggle switch is needed for the 40 watt system for the same reason as why it's stock type of brakelight switch is. Right? "

____ Well not the EXACT-same reason of course, but you're right in that the employment of both of those peculiar parts is to insure that the ignition-circuit remains completed.
The only reason for the switch in the tail-lamp, is because if & when the foot-pedal/brake-lever happens to get depressed during high-RPM running, the brakelight-bulb's filament can then possibly get burned-out... And after that has occurred, the motor will then die every time the rear-brake is used! - (Who needs a running-motor when you're in a panic-rush to loose speed, right?)
But in case ya come to a complete-stop (and thus no longer able to dump the clutch, & continue-on your way),, the geniuses at Ducati figured a quicker way -(than bothering to install your spare-bulb), to keep your motor from killing every time you have to use the rear-brake! ... They came-up with the simple idea of just using a low-cost toggle-switch -(conveniently located on the tail-lamp) to short-circuit the juice -(which had been rerouted to the brake-light), to 'ground',, so that the ign.spark can then come back for duty & you may continue on your way un-inconvenienced!


" So after i complete all the wiring changes i need to do by following your modification method for using a battery, would there still be any use for that switch's funtion even though your wiring method requires the use of a different type of brakelight switch? "

____ No! _ Disconnect it, or it could blow the (intended) fuse.


" The last thing i need to know for now is, is this method of yours for charging a battery for powering the brakelight, going to be completely compatable with your method for improving the dim headlight problem which my Mark 3 has at low rpm? "

____ Yes! _ You'll just ought to choose a larger battery (to handle the increased power-juice provided by the modified alt.stator), than otherwise.


DUKE-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[captpaul]

Du-cat-i bob

All of the alts. you've talked about are 5 speed models (except for bronco's) but there's no manuals I've seen for 1957--1963 4 speed battery ign systems. My 63 Diana came with 2 yellow wires, no battery, clip ons,
27ss1, it ran like a rocket, Almost always started on first kick. It had a brass flywheel like the later 5 speeds.
Now what did the 175,200, bikes have? My 1962 200 had a battery, fair lites, and if I left the key on, and run the battery down, there was a factory plastic toggle switch on the bottom of the head lite shell, the decal on the switch said emergency- normal .
I would flip the emergency switch and the bike would start right up, then switch it back to normal .Have you seen this or repaired the older 4 speeds? What did they use for there charging systems? Are there any manuals or paper work drawings that you know of to help in some upcoming restos? Thanks


Capt Paul

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" My 63 Diana came with 2 yellow wires, no battery, clip ons,
27ss1, it ran like a rocket, It had a brass flywheel like the later 5 speeds. "

____ Strange, are you sure it was completely stock?
That year you could get either a 4-speed '250-Diana' or a 5-speed '250 Diana-Mark-3' -(Mk3)... Most "Diana" models came with the common 24mm Dellorto, 6v-battery and a 4-pole -(battery-type) alternator with just a pair of yellow wire-leads & brass-flywheel/rotor. _ While the "Mk3" came with the 27mm SSI, no battery, and the "40-watt" alt.stator with 3 colored wire-leads & aluminum-rotor.
Now if yours was a 4-speed model, then perhaps you got one of the extra very rare 'Diana S' models that I once heard ya could get by special-order -(very much like the 750SS in 1973!), but I've never even seen one! - (Got any pix?)


" Now what did the 175,200, bikes have? My 1962 200 had a battery, fair lites, and if I left the key on, and run the battery down, there was a factory plastic toggle switch on the bottom of the head lite shell, the decal on the switch said emergency- normal .
I would flip the emergency switch and the bike would start right up, then switch it back to normal . "

____ Isn't that so very cool & neat!! _ I don't recall any of the 200s that I had still having that decal. _ And it's a very vague memory that there were some electric-doings within any of their headlamps that I didn't know the function of. - (Back in the day, [with an immature mentality], the goal was always to get rid of the 4-speed models & trade-up toward newer 5-speed models,, so I never owned a 200 -[rider] for very long!)
It's my guess that that (neat) switch would disconnect the battery along with the rest of the electrical-system, so that the ignition-system would be the only load for the alternator's output. _ I think that's a cool idea, and if I had realized that Ducati had ever done that, I would've been sure to include that very nifty feature on every rewire-job I ever did on any of my own DUKEs! _ So I hope we can find the old wiring-diagrams for the pre-1964 DUCATIs, so I can check-it-out!
Can anyone else please confirm that such a labeled switch was a standard-stock feature on any model of Ducati? _ (Seems like something you'd see on a 'Ward's Riverside'.)


" Have you seen this or repaired the older 4 speeds? What did they use for there charging systems? Are there any manuals or paper work drawings that you know of to help in some upcoming restos? "

____ I indeed do have some experience with the 4-speed models, and have been intending to cover a bit of info about some of their charging-systems!
Unfortunately, I've never owned any 175 model and only a handful of 200s for short periods. _ So I never got any of their electrical-systems burned-into my memory (which is really too bad cuz I'm really curious about them!). _ Nor do I know of any info or diagrams that cover any of their systems.
And due to my young age at the time, I was unaware of any models of Ducati before 1963,, so for me, anything before then, I consider to be in the 'dark-age' of Ducati.
On top of that, my local top DUCATI-friend who I looked-up to since those early days, passed away years ago,, so I can't turn to my old buddy Bruce for answers about the first 5 years of Ducati, like I once could!
__ So while I can't help you 'RESTORE' your pre-1963 electrical-system projects to STOCK, I could still be of some help with rewiring them in an updated way!
As far as I know, the older models which used a battery were wired-up the same way as the later narrow-case Monza models were. _ The only major difference was the replacement of the 40-watt 4-pole alternator with the 60-watt 6-pole model, and an updated rect.reg-box. _ Although when I first started working as a DUCATI-mechanic (in 1968), I recall some older models of 200s coming in with square-finned 'selenium-rectifier' units, instead of the newer heavy black-box. _ I don't know for sure if that older selenium-rectifier set-up was used with an IDENTICAL 4-pole stator, as I never had to do any work on the charging-system of any stock DUKEs which were so equipped. _ However in the early '70s, I once traded for a DUKE-collection of 7 (mixed-up) old 4-speed 200/250 basket-cases which included 2 of those selenium-rectifiers & 5 of the older-style heavy black-BOXes, along with all their 4-pole stators,, and even though 5 were known to be of the 200-models, all the stators seemed to be the same, with just the two yellow wire-leads -(like the later models had)!
__ I took the best two stators from that lot and modified them for use on n-c DUKEs which I also put 12-volt systems on! _ They worked just fine for that (with no V-regulator). - (I believe I've mentioned something about that in another thread.) _ I also sold a couple others of them which I had modified as well for use with either 12-volt battery or with a battery-eliminator -(which was a hot-desire back then!).
I always preferred the 4-pole alternators, and I recall being quite upset after I discovered that the new 60-watt models were 6-pole (with strangely positioned power-coils!)! _ However by the early '70s, I came to accept the new alternator set-ups, (but sure wouldn't have if I had only known about that neat 'emergency-switch' idea!)


___ At this point, do ya got any direction which you care to go from here?


DUCATIly,
DCT-Bob

[captpaul]

Thanks Bob

My Ducati mentor,who taught me almost all I know about n/c singles, Had a mcy shop in Rodgers Ark after he came back from wwII He raced Nortons & Ducati singles. He and his wife moved to Hudson Fl and opened a Ducati shop to live out his years.
Any way He helped me with all my singles projects. I wish he was alive now to help me with the old ones I have now.
He had a jig he made, that he put in a lathe, and turned my single pulg sebring into a twin spark plug head like a 450RT.
He showed me the racing inards of a 250 rr motor he placed 4th place behind a Bultaco metrella in the daytona race in 1964. and pulled out the cycle magazine with the pic of him behind the Metrella, with his name in the caption, (I think Ray Hempstead took 1st). He's gone now, but when he was 78 yrs old, got stopped by a Fl State Tropper at close to a hundred on a 500 Moto Morni, on a back road.
So I read all your tips and all others on the net to finish my favorite Dukes be fore I die!