Hi,
I would be interested to know if anyone has had any issues with sealed batteries?
I went for a ride out on my 350 Desmo on Sunday only for it to just about make it back home.It was missfiring really bad,no power,backfiring.I looked at it tonight and after a bit of diagnosis it turned out to be the battery causing all the problems.I think it must have shorted out.When I could get the engine to run, with a volt meter across it,the engine would just almost turn off with the red ignition light glowing very dim.I swopped the battery over from another bike and bingo it all ran fine.Just to make sure I was right,I swopped it back and the problem returned.So I have now ordered a "wet" yuasa battery to replace it.Odd
Steve
battery problems
Moderator: ajleone
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3564cam
- Posts: 47
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- Location: Saint Albans England
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john jupiter
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:00 pm
- Location: USA
Re: battery problems
Steve,
This exact same thing happened to me last week. misfiring and under acceleration.. It was also a sealed battery that had only been installed for about 200miles. i didnt have a tester handy but i did have another battery and when installed it ran perfectly again. The replacement i used was also a sealed sealed unit but a different, larger model. If this one gives out i guess ill have no choice but to go back to the conventional type which loved to leak...
This exact same thing happened to me last week. misfiring and under acceleration.. It was also a sealed battery that had only been installed for about 200miles. i didnt have a tester handy but i did have another battery and when installed it ran perfectly again. The replacement i used was also a sealed sealed unit but a different, larger model. If this one gives out i guess ill have no choice but to go back to the conventional type which loved to leak...
1970 450 Jupiter
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Bevel bob
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:01 am
- Location: Bromley Kent UK.
Re: battery problems
The Yuasa acid battery came with my 250 6 years ago and still works fine, if it ain't broke------.I also get the same symptoms from an oiled up plug.
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DewCatTea-Bob
- Posts: 2897
- Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:53 am
- Location: Near SE side of Lake Michigan
Sealed-battery Break-down ?
By: 3564cam...
" I would be interested to know if anyone has had any issues with sealed batteries?
I went for a ride out on my 350 Desmo on Sunday only for it to just about make it back home.
I looked at it tonight and after a bit of diagnosis it turned out to be the battery causing all the problems.I think it must have shorted out. "
____ When such type batteries became available in the '80s, I had no such problem with them but, I only justified their added-expense for my L-twin and never tried one in a Duke-single. _ So perhaps they don't stand-up well to the vibration and something works-loose inside and causes an internal short-circuit somehow within ?
" It was missfiring really bad,no power,backfiring. "
____ Apparently, with the battery robbing so much charging power-juice, there's then an insufficient amount left to fully run the ignition.
__ If you hadn't discovered that your stated issue was due to the battery, I would've first suspected that your contact-points gap-setting had closed-down towards next to nothing.
" the engine would just almost turn off with the red ignition light glowing very dim. "
____ What "red" ignition light ? _ I don't believe there's any such ignition-light located on any (stock) Duc.Single ! _ Where is such a red-light located on yours ?
" So I have now ordered a "wet" yuasa battery to replace it. "
____ What's the model-number for your chosen Yuasa unit ?
Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
" I would be interested to know if anyone has had any issues with sealed batteries?
I went for a ride out on my 350 Desmo on Sunday only for it to just about make it back home.
I looked at it tonight and after a bit of diagnosis it turned out to be the battery causing all the problems.I think it must have shorted out. "
____ When such type batteries became available in the '80s, I had no such problem with them but, I only justified their added-expense for my L-twin and never tried one in a Duke-single. _ So perhaps they don't stand-up well to the vibration and something works-loose inside and causes an internal short-circuit somehow within ?
" It was missfiring really bad,no power,backfiring. "
____ Apparently, with the battery robbing so much charging power-juice, there's then an insufficient amount left to fully run the ignition.
__ If you hadn't discovered that your stated issue was due to the battery, I would've first suspected that your contact-points gap-setting had closed-down towards next to nothing.
" the engine would just almost turn off with the red ignition light glowing very dim. "
____ What "red" ignition light ? _ I don't believe there's any such ignition-light located on any (stock) Duc.Single ! _ Where is such a red-light located on yours ?
" So I have now ordered a "wet" yuasa battery to replace it. "
____ What's the model-number for your chosen Yuasa unit ?
Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob
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JasonB
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:48 pm
Re: battery problems
Well, I went for a ride on Sunday and my sla played up a (6volt 13ah kids ride on toy battery so I've been told), I even went to the trouble of painting it in black wrinkle and applying SAFA stickers (doh) it seems to have voltage and then just looses the voltage. I thought it was maybe a open circuit in one of the wires, but after emailing the distributor here in Australia, apparently they get these playing up all the time, They think it has something to do with a: vibration and b: not liking the constant charge, unlike a ride on toy where it is fully discharged and then recharged. I wonder if they wouldn't fail if you just run them flat then recharge. I have now gone back to a standard acid battery and back to wiping acid spill off my frame and parts.
JasonB
JasonB
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3564cam
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:56 pm
- Location: Saint Albans England
Re: battery problems
Hi Jason,
That was EXACTLY what happened to me,one minute 6 volts next 0 volts so the engine just switched off.
Bob,
I have three lights on my headlamp,red for charging,green for side light,yellow for main beam headlamp.See picture attached.The bike is a 1974 disc brake bike.My Mach 1,scrambler,and 125 all have red lights as well.Maybe European bikes are different.The battery is a yuasa B38-6A.The dimensions fit my rubber tray perfectly even though there isnt a specific listing for a Desmo.
I think it is the vibration that is killing these batteries.Mine was inside a plastic box normally fitted to a narrow case bike but still with the wide rubber strap.I wedged it with a small bit of wood to stop it moving around as its not a tight fit.but if you rev the bike while stationary the whole thing does jump about.
I will try it out over the weekend if the weathers good and report back
That was EXACTLY what happened to me,one minute 6 volts next 0 volts so the engine just switched off.
Bob,
I have three lights on my headlamp,red for charging,green for side light,yellow for main beam headlamp.See picture attached.The bike is a 1974 disc brake bike.My Mach 1,scrambler,and 125 all have red lights as well.Maybe European bikes are different.The battery is a yuasa B38-6A.The dimensions fit my rubber tray perfectly even though there isnt a specific listing for a Desmo.
I think it is the vibration that is killing these batteries.Mine was inside a plastic box normally fitted to a narrow case bike but still with the wide rubber strap.I wedged it with a small bit of wood to stop it moving around as its not a tight fit.but if you rev the bike while stationary the whole thing does jump about.
I will try it out over the weekend if the weathers good and report back
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DewCatTea-Bob
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- Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:53 am
- Location: Near SE side of Lake Michigan
1974 350 DESMO-model with Power Issues
" one minute 6 volts next 0 volts so the engine just switched off. "
____ While write-wording my previous post, I was not thinking to consider that your 350D had it's stock charging-system replaced with one of those 18-pole alternator systems with it's rotor probably left randomly timed (in relation to the crankshaft). _ In such case your mentioned very-poor engine-running issues were likely not due to your battery having become 'SHORTed-out', but rather due to having developed an 'OPEN' internally somewhere within itself. _ Thus the bad engine-running was not due to the battery shorting-out your charging-system's supply of power (as previously suspected), but rather because your ignition-system was left to be powered only by poorly timed pulses of DC (due to your replaced alt.rotor not having been properly 'timed').
" I have three lights on my headlamp,red for charging,green for side light,yellow for main beam headlamp.See picture attached. "
____ I see that now (for the first-time) ! _ Your 1974 350D-model was never imported here to the U.S., (we only got the 450 & L-twin models that year), and so I've never before seen that exact-type of headlamp on any Duke-model ! _ So I must take your word that it's red indicator-light is indeed having something to do with the charging-circuit.
" My Mach 1,scrambler,and 125 all have red lights as well. Maybe European bikes are different. "
____ As far as I've ever known, all the street-legal DUCATI-models have included a red indicator-lamp/light, but it's always been employed as a high-beam warning-indicator, only. _ So it's somewhat disconcerting that your Duke uses a red-light to indicate any other function.
__ Other than the red-light warning-indicator, WideCase-models made for the U.S., also included a white-light atop the headlamp for indicating that the ignition-switch is turned-on and allowing the battery to supply power to the ign.coil & load-system.
__ I don't think any other model has ever employed a yellow-light.
" The battery is a yuasa B38-6A.The dimensions fit my rubber tray perfectly even though there isnt a specific listing for a Desmo. "
____ Thanks for that info, as others who have wish for the 6v.battery may have use for such.
Regardless of w-c or n-c model-type, the same battery will fit just as well in either.
" I think it is the vibration that is killing these batteries. "
____ You mean whatever sealed-type model you've tried,, and if that battery suddenly goes 'dead', then yes it has no-doubt suffered from a vibration-induced internal breakage/open-circuit issue, which kills an otherwise still-good/usable battery. _ However if it doesn't suddenly die, but rather loses power gradually, then it's likely getting shorted-out within, from internal sediment-buildup around the bottom-ends of it's plates.
In either case, the engine-vibration is no-doubt the root-cause of such breakdown/malfunction.
" I wedged it with a small bit of wood to stop it moving around as its not a tight fit. "
____ Perhaps instead of rather hard "wood", you should've used pieces of (softer, vibration-absorbent) foam-rubber, in it's place.
Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
____ While write-wording my previous post, I was not thinking to consider that your 350D had it's stock charging-system replaced with one of those 18-pole alternator systems with it's rotor probably left randomly timed (in relation to the crankshaft). _ In such case your mentioned very-poor engine-running issues were likely not due to your battery having become 'SHORTed-out', but rather due to having developed an 'OPEN' internally somewhere within itself. _ Thus the bad engine-running was not due to the battery shorting-out your charging-system's supply of power (as previously suspected), but rather because your ignition-system was left to be powered only by poorly timed pulses of DC (due to your replaced alt.rotor not having been properly 'timed').
" I have three lights on my headlamp,red for charging,green for side light,yellow for main beam headlamp.See picture attached. "
____ I see that now (for the first-time) ! _ Your 1974 350D-model was never imported here to the U.S., (we only got the 450 & L-twin models that year), and so I've never before seen that exact-type of headlamp on any Duke-model ! _ So I must take your word that it's red indicator-light is indeed having something to do with the charging-circuit.
" My Mach 1,scrambler,and 125 all have red lights as well. Maybe European bikes are different. "
____ As far as I've ever known, all the street-legal DUCATI-models have included a red indicator-lamp/light, but it's always been employed as a high-beam warning-indicator, only. _ So it's somewhat disconcerting that your Duke uses a red-light to indicate any other function.
__ Other than the red-light warning-indicator, WideCase-models made for the U.S., also included a white-light atop the headlamp for indicating that the ignition-switch is turned-on and allowing the battery to supply power to the ign.coil & load-system.
__ I don't think any other model has ever employed a yellow-light.
" The battery is a yuasa B38-6A.The dimensions fit my rubber tray perfectly even though there isnt a specific listing for a Desmo. "
____ Thanks for that info, as others who have wish for the 6v.battery may have use for such.
Regardless of w-c or n-c model-type, the same battery will fit just as well in either.
" I think it is the vibration that is killing these batteries. "
____ You mean whatever sealed-type model you've tried,, and if that battery suddenly goes 'dead', then yes it has no-doubt suffered from a vibration-induced internal breakage/open-circuit issue, which kills an otherwise still-good/usable battery. _ However if it doesn't suddenly die, but rather loses power gradually, then it's likely getting shorted-out within, from internal sediment-buildup around the bottom-ends of it's plates.
In either case, the engine-vibration is no-doubt the root-cause of such breakdown/malfunction.
" I wedged it with a small bit of wood to stop it moving around as its not a tight fit. "
____ Perhaps instead of rather hard "wood", you should've used pieces of (softer, vibration-absorbent) foam-rubber, in it's place.
Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob
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Jon Pegler
- Posts: 463
- Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 6:19 pm
Re: battery problems
I don't think that the late European model Ducatis necessarily had a different set of lights mounted in the headlamp shell.
The photo Steve sent of his headlamp shows three lamps fitted, but is not a standard arrangement.
They are later lamps from a post 1977 V-twin, or other contemporary Italian machine.
The original set up had a red and white lamp (with a different shape to those shown in the photo), either side of a green plastic 'pip' in the middle.
The green 'pip' allowed light through from the inside of the headlamp shell to show that the parking light was on.
The red and white lamps were for main beam and ignition as Bob mentions.
The ignition light does not go out, like most car systems, once the motor is running, but glows away dimly all the time the ignition is switched on.
Someone must have modified Steves headlamp shell to fit the extra third lamp.
Not that that is a bad idea on a Ducati single.
Jon
The photo Steve sent of his headlamp shows three lamps fitted, but is not a standard arrangement.
They are later lamps from a post 1977 V-twin, or other contemporary Italian machine.
The original set up had a red and white lamp (with a different shape to those shown in the photo), either side of a green plastic 'pip' in the middle.
The green 'pip' allowed light through from the inside of the headlamp shell to show that the parking light was on.
The red and white lamps were for main beam and ignition as Bob mentions.
The ignition light does not go out, like most car systems, once the motor is running, but glows away dimly all the time the ignition is switched on.
Someone must have modified Steves headlamp shell to fit the extra third lamp.
Not that that is a bad idea on a Ducati single.
Jon
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JasonB
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:48 pm
Re: battery problems
3564cam wrote:Hi Jason,
That was EXACTLY what happened to me,one minute 6 volts next 0 volts so the engine just switched off.
Hi Steve,
Its a shame cause I thought the SLA would of solved all my acid spill problems. I have modified my charing system so my bike needs a battery to run or that internal resistance of the battery to charge, so I have no charge light, (using a asian reg) But like DCT Bob has said if your running a standard system the bike if flywheel is position right should run. Below is my modified SLA battery.
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3564cam
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:56 pm
- Location: Saint Albans England
Re: battery problems
Hi,
Used the desmo this afternoon(weather very hot today),all is fine with new conventional battery.The Yuasa B38-6A fits and looks perfect.I cant confirm that it will fit a narrow case bike yet.There is a plastic box available with "Safa" sticker kit designed to take a sealed battery but this is what failed on my widecase so not sure what to do with the narrow case yet as I would like to still use the box to keep it looking original.
With regards to red charging lights,please see late narrow case wiring diagram downloaded from the Tech portion of this site.It clearly shows a charging bulb connected to the ignition switch on one side then to the regulator on the other.This system works by giving the bulb an earth via the regulator when its not charging but sends a live to the bulb when it is,thus turning the light off.Cars work in the same manner.The widecase wiring diagram shows exactly the same system so I think my red charging light which goes out when I rev the engine seems correct.My Desmo has all it's original wiring harness and the cables are there all connected.The only difference is my modern alternator and reg/rec which I specified from Electrix to have this same warning light facilty.
http://www.motoscrubs.com/Ducati_Electr ... ematic.jpg
I know that my warning lights arent original as they were changed for LED's but I assumed the colours were correct.I have some original ones to fit,see pictures attached.Should there be three of this type or was the 3rd one different?
Used the desmo this afternoon(weather very hot today),all is fine with new conventional battery.The Yuasa B38-6A fits and looks perfect.I cant confirm that it will fit a narrow case bike yet.There is a plastic box available with "Safa" sticker kit designed to take a sealed battery but this is what failed on my widecase so not sure what to do with the narrow case yet as I would like to still use the box to keep it looking original.
With regards to red charging lights,please see late narrow case wiring diagram downloaded from the Tech portion of this site.It clearly shows a charging bulb connected to the ignition switch on one side then to the regulator on the other.This system works by giving the bulb an earth via the regulator when its not charging but sends a live to the bulb when it is,thus turning the light off.Cars work in the same manner.The widecase wiring diagram shows exactly the same system so I think my red charging light which goes out when I rev the engine seems correct.My Desmo has all it's original wiring harness and the cables are there all connected.The only difference is my modern alternator and reg/rec which I specified from Electrix to have this same warning light facilty.
http://www.motoscrubs.com/Ducati_Electr ... ematic.jpg
I know that my warning lights arent original as they were changed for LED's but I assumed the colours were correct.I have some original ones to fit,see pictures attached.Should there be three of this type or was the 3rd one different?
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