MZB / Powerdynamo Ignition

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" I believe that they are still unsure of what the advance for the 450 should be. Their "experts" seem to believe that it is still the same as the 250/350. "

____ There STILL seems to be some confusion here ! ...
As I've stated before, their experts are correct about the "advance" BUT there's more than one aspect that THAT word can refer to !! - Either the RANGE-SPAN of the 'advance' -(which indeed IS the same), OR, the STATIC 'advance' -(which is NOT the same).
So it seems that this needs to be cleared-up & straightened-out !?


" I think I would be the best if I can work thru it with them. "

____ I agree that you should go that route and not undo all your work. _ (I just hope you don't ever run-into any more set-backs of any kind with it.)


" Maybe the next person that orders will get a better product. "

____ It would nice if this issue would lead to a newer unit with a little wider range of advance, as all three engine-sizes could benefit from that ! - (Even 250s have kick-back, which ought to be avoided too!)


" Will keep everyone advised. "

____ I'm disappointed that it seems they didn't tell you what they think about the idea of simply retarding the static-advance by 5-degrees (or up to 9).
Perhaps you should also advise them of this thread (or just the posts concerning this ign.timing-issue), as I think it would then bring them up-to-speed on just what needs to be done to solve the 450 timing-issue.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[Teckhardt]

As I've stated before, their experts are correct about the "advance" BUT there's more than one aspect that THAT word can refer to !! - Either the RANGE-SPAN of the 'advance' -(which indeed IS the same), OR, the STATIC 'advance' -(which is NOT the same).
So it seems that this needs to be cleared-up & straightened-out !?

I was not able to talk with the US rep on the phone yet, but we did trade a couple of emails. I sent him the page from the workshop manual that shows the advance settings - both static, total mechanical and total advance. This should help with the confusion. He also stated that he knows the total amount of mechanical advance is the same but the initial static setting is what is different. He is going to relay all this to MZB.

It would nice if this issue would lead to a newer unit with a little wider range of advance, as all three engine-sizes could benefit from that ! - (Even 250s have kick-back, which ought to be avoided too!)

Agreed. Don't know how much change they will be willing to make. This will be step two.

I'm disappointed that it seems they didn't tell you what they think about the idea of simply retarding the static-advance by 5-degrees (or up to 9).

No word on that as a solution.

[Bevel bob]

I am currently attempting to modify a commercial magnetic trigger to replace my points and hope to combine this with my Pazon ignition booster, if it works i'll post more information.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" if it works i'll post more information. "

____ It doesn't matter if you haven't proved it to work, it's too interesting to merely post just that little-bit about it ! _ So how about some more details !? _ It's also worth it's own thread !
__ I was once considering adapting the non-points system used by the XL250-Honda.

____ Have you given-up your idea of modifying the stock mechamical-advancer to go past it's standard 28-degree range?


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[Bevel bob]

I have a spare Luminition Magnetronic unit which is designed for a car disributor and am playing with it. I will be modifying my aau to allow a few more degrees of advance and reset the timing to give less advance on starting , and so perhaps a more reliable tickover with less kickback , we shall see. Bike is out of action due to leaky full tap.The british bike type! Seals do not like the funny stuff I'm putting in the tank.What max advance would you use for a Mach 1 spec and todays fuel??

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" I have a spare Luminition Magnetronic unit which is designed for a car disributor and am playing with it.
I will be modifying my aau to allow a few more degrees of advance and reset the timing to give less advance on starting ,
What max advance would you use for a Mach 1 spec and todays fuel?? "

____ Well, "today's fuel" varies too much these days to think of 'fuel' as much different than that of the past, so it's all close enough to the same stuff that it really shouldn't matter that much. _ So that part of the question, I can't really comment further on.
The Mach-I is pretty-much just a Mark-3 with with a Monza ign.system. _ And I don't know why Ducati determined that the Mk3 should get a 41-degree total-advance while the M1 retained the Monza's 36-degree max-advance. _ But since the Mk3 was faster than the M1, I must assume that the max-advance of 41-degrees is the only reason for it. _ So I'd shoot for a total-advance of 38/39-degrees BTDC.
__ If you could get the std.28-degree AAU modified to increase-outward to between 30 & 32 degrees, then you could set your static-timing back (from 10 or 11) to just 9 or 6 degrees BTDC.
__ Your consideration of adapting the type of ign.system you mentioned, ought to be work-outable for you well enough if you can fit all it's required parts to your 250.
Do you have any other details -(timing,etc.) about it?
I prefer to stay away from magnetically-triggered ignitions because I don't like the idea of the way that it's magnetic-flux must trigger it's sensor... Could be that I don't know exactly how it works at varying RPM but, I'd just prefer to use the light-triggered systems which still use a mechanical-advancer, when there's the choice of either type.


Onward-Cheers,
-Bob

[jbcollier]

I haven't read through all eight pages but:

- all 250/350/450 advance units have the same curve and range.

- 450 have their initial timing set to O° so you don't break your leg if it kicks back.

- yes this results in a lower total advance for the 450, life goes on.

- follow whatever procedure the manufacturer recommends to set the timing so that when kicking over the bike, spark plug removed, the timing is 0°

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" all 250/350/450 advance units have the same curve and range. "

____ You seem like you ought to know what you're stating about, so I'd assume that you just didn't choose your wording -("all") very-well.
Cuz all three motor-sizes have used two different AAUs, depending on the DUKE-model.


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[jbcollier]

Nope, doesn't vary by model, engine size, colour or sexual preference, just ignition type:

Magneto - 367B - 14° advance
Battery - AA359 - 28° advance

Again, no difference due to engine size.

Simply set the 450 to fire at TDC when kicking and that's it.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" Nope, doesn't vary by model, engine size, colour or sexual preference, just ignition type:
Magneto - 367B - 14° advance
Battery - AA359 - 28° advance "

____ Either I was wrong about you, or your use of English-wording is not very good at stating exactly what you may actually mean to convey. _ As you've now given contradictory info above.
__ The narrow-case non-battery-powered-ignition models & early wide-case 250/350-Scrambler-models as well as the 450R/T-model, all use a 18-degree AAU !- (Clearly not "all" the same, as your quite misleading wording does indeed seem to indicate!)
__ Also, if ya were to choose any particular DUKE-model, your wording allows a reader to think that it's possible that that exact same model may have been produced with either type of the two different ignition set-ups, (which is actually not true!).
Various DUKE-models came specifically with either a 6-pole alternator OR a 4-pole ALTERNATOR -(not an actual "magneto" !),, and THAT difference is what actually determined if any 'model' employed a 28-degree OR a 18-degree AAU !


" Simply set the 450 to fire at TDC when kicking and that's it. "

____ That's indeed the std.static ign.timing suggested for the battery-powered 450-models, however those 450-models produce best engine-power with their static ign.timing set at 4-degrees BTDC. _ (The zero setting is just for eliminating any otherwise possible kick-back, for the street/road-going 450-models.)


DUCATIly,
-Bob