Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

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DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:23 pm

" Why is it better to ground the negative terminal of the rectifier to the coil mount rather than any other place that's more convenient? "

____ If you prefer, you may of course choose to ground the neg.output of the bridge-block at the same point as you have the battery's neg.output. _ I only suggest a grounding-wire connection at the ign.coil-mount because some DUCATI-models have chosen that same (fairly convenient) mounting-location to terminate their grounding-wire. ...
__ You see 'Ground' isn't always dependable to actually pass-through from point to point, especially to tail & head light-housings, so if one were to choose to make their system less dependent on 'Ground' to do it's job, they'd then wish to run additional wiring from the battery's neg.terminal to the light-housings & the motor as well.
And besides, I also had been intending to tell you that you should be sure to run a grounding-wire from the ground-terminal of your headlight-bulb to that same ground-point at the ign.coil-mount. _ But if you prefer instead to choose running that suggested ground-wire back to the same ground-point as that of the battery's, then you'll of course need to install a longer piece of wire for that most important grounding-job.
__ Something that many mechanics don't realize is that a 6-volt system is even more-so apt to suffer from poor ground-conduction between a certain ground-area and other ground-areas (all on the same bike!), because any of those ground-areas are possibly not always at the exact-same level of ground as The 'Ground' actually is, (due to higher-currents not being able to freely pass-through as well), (between motor-casing and painted motor-mounts for example). _ And that ground to 'Ground' oversight/issue is indeed a major part of the reason for why old DUCATIs (and Brit-bikes, etc., as well), have earned bad-raps for their (seemingly poor) electrical systems !
__ While the headlight current-conduction has the highest trouble with ground to 'Ground' conduction (due to the high-current involved!), the motor-to-frame conduction is not as big of a concern ! _ However, I've always preferred to use a coaxial-type dual-conductor electrical-wire to connect the points to the ign.coil with,, that way, I could use the outer-sheathing of wire to (more certainly) ground the points-plate to the (conveniently located) grounding-point at the ign.coil-mount ! _ (Also helpful for doublely-grounding the alternator in n-c motors.)
I don't highly recommend this particular wiring-mod for the w-c models but, it surely doesn't hurt ignition-reliability, to add that nice-touch !!

____ Hope you'll be able to inform us of your wiring-plans before you actually finish-up the completed job.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

frankfast
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby frankfast » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:15 pm

I've wired as you proposed. I've abandoned one yellow lead from the altenator for now but will install a switch before it's connected to the rectifiers AC terminal. The other yellow lead is connected to the other AC terminal of the bridge rectifier. One or the other is supposed to be in phase with the ignition system but the bike ran equally well when I switched them. That will require more study. The red wire from the altenator along with the wire to the coil is terminated on one side of a two pole switch while the battery and a lead energizing the fuse box is terminated on the other side. There is a switch at the headlight shell, a brake light switch and a horn button. Obviously all can be activated with the bike not running. The minus terminal of the rectifier is grounded at the frame, as is the battery. The flat piece of steel under the seat supports the fuse box, rectifier and on - off (charging) switch. You're right of course, the bike will continue to run with the switch in the off position but I've mounted a kill switch at the handlebars which grounds the circuit to the points. All in all it's a very simple way to wire this six volt system and it works. The only question will be is to how well the battery will charge.

I have another unrelated, I think, problem in that the Ducati is susceptible to fouling plugs. That may be fodder for another thread.

DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:39 am

" The other yellow lead is connected to the other AC terminal of the bridge rectifier. One or the other is supposed to be in phase with the ignition system but the bike ran equally well when I switched them. "

____ Well that's probably because the engine was actually being kept running by the battery...
In order to determine which Yellow alt.wire-lead is producing the required negative-pulse at the time when the points open, the engine has to be started with the battery connected-up, then with the RPM not too low, disconnect the battery... If the engine then suddenly dies, then the Yellow-wire that's connected is the wrong one for permanent-connection,, however the correct Yellow-wire will still keep a spark firing.
(If both Yellow alt.wire-leads keep the ign.spark firing with the battery disconnected, then the alt.rotor is out of time, and neither can then do the job as well as it could be done !)


" The red wire from the altenator along with the wire to the coil is terminated on one side of a two pole switch while the battery and a lead energizing the fuse box is terminated on the other side. "

____ While I'm sure that your wording says what you mean, it also may be interpreted quite differently. _ So a scheme of the switch-wiring you're using would be very helpful to determine if there are any short-comings to your exact wiring-plan.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

DewCatTea-Bob
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12-Volt Charging-System using a W-C Alternator

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:20 am

_____ Well it's past time that I get-around to adding another installment to this thread !
The following post-quote came from the thread titled: "On using GM HEI ignition modules", and it's concerns seemed more appropriately placed here, so I've brought-forth the pertinent portions to be posted here, as well. ...
Jordan wrote:Have you changed a Ducati or Mototrans alternator from 6V to 12V system? How did it go? What style of riding - low speed commuting in all conditions, or high speed in daytime only?
. . .
That's a positive report that Motoplat alternators (all of them?) fitted to Ducati singles will work fine to keep a 12V battery charged, even in less than best conditions - headlight on, low speed riding. I take it that not the same can be said about Ducati's own? Or are they just as versatile?

____ Even though I've never busted-up a Motoplat-stator to have an internal look-see, I do believe that they are more-or-less the same type as the Ducati-made w-c versions. _ (Hopefully Jon can confirm that !)

____ Anyhow, I know of at least a half-dozen different methods for wiring-up the stock-alternator for obtaining various charging-systems, for all pre-1976 triple wire-lead Ducati-alternators !
I've been putting-off getting back to offering another suggested method because I've been waiting for some excuse to choose one to pick for the next installment to this appropriately named thread.
__ So first I'll next cover some details concerning a 12volt-system (using the stock w-c alt.) by substituting the original 6-volt rect.reg.box-unit with a 12-volt version (that's stock on the pre-1976 L-twins) _ (BTW, the two Ducati R.R.box-units are identical in all ways except for their stated voltage.)
____ I once had a 750-Sport of which I had replaced it's stock 12v-rect.reg.unit with another type of similar unit, therefore leaving the original-unit to be tried-out on a 450-Jupiter (with it's stock 12t sprocket replaced with a 13t), which I had temporarily installed 12-volt battery & std.12v-bulbs in, just to see how well everything would work-out that way.
__ The results seemed just fine with lights off, but with lights turned-on, city-riding (with my RPM-average under 4k) would lead to the engine dieing at stops (due to discharged battery) as-soon-as as little as 15-minutes of stop & go riding, (only with lights on!).
I preferred using the 450 for such city-riding (day & night), so I considered the test (of the L-twin unit) to be a failure.
However (in 1975), I installed that very-same L-twin unit on a 12v-converted 250-SCR (with stock gearing) and the guy I sold that 250 to claimed he never had any problems with his battery running-down,, but then I had let the 250 go to him with the same type of charging set-up (which didn't work for me on the 450), only because I knew that he didn't intend to use the Duke for in-town city-type riding during the night, (although he later told me he had also done some night-time riding through town [for shorter periods]).
I had figured that it must've helped that his 250 had much lower gearing than I had on the 450.
__ Probably another reason for why the L-twin/12v-system failed my trial-test on the 450, is cuz that 450's 12-volt load-wattage was a bit higher (than the original 6-volt load-wattage was), due to two system-load differences... First, the 450 testing was done with the 6-volt ign.coil still retained (which should've caused the ign.system to consume about twice as much current), and second, the 12v-headlight consumed 45-watts whereas the 6v-headlight used just 35-watts. _ (BTW, the spark-gap was then increased and cold-starting seemed improved. _ And also btw, the 250-SCR did also get a 12-volt ign.coil, so that helped it do better with the 12v/L-twin unit, as well !)
__ These above cases are just two good examples which together indicate that these stock-Ducati charging-systems (which use only half-wave rectification of the alt.power), were intended to be kept near a fairly-close system-BALANCE (of power-wattage vs. load-wattage) !
____ Anyhow, (even though I've mentioned the likes of following before), those stock Ducati rect.reg.box-units (either 6v/single or 12v/L-twin versions) both only allow use of just one-HALF of the alternator's possible current AND just one-HALF of the voltage that's available from the alternator !! _ (The reason that this is the actual case, is already covered near the beginning of this thread.)
And also again, I should point-out here that the only good reasons for wishing to obtain more power-juice for the charging-system, is for the purpose of powering a greater system-load (such as stronger than stock headlights), or to make a Duke able to keep it's battery charged during extended low-RPM riding with lights left turned-on !!
____ Next I intend to explain how to use a toggle-switch & rectifier (in conjunction with either Ducati rect.reg.unit), in order to simply obtain the other half of the (potential) power-juice (which the stock Ducati-system doesn't make any use of [from the stock 3 wire-lead alternator]), for only whenever needed (such as for faster charging of a discharged battery, or riding within a parade at low-revs with lights left on) !
____ There are two different ways of adding the normally unused (& usually unneeded) power-juice to the charging-system, using added power-diodes & toggle-switches...
__ One method requires just two added power-diodes (or a convenient to mount bridge-block [containing two unneeded diodes]), and a dual-position/3-terminal toggle-switch (of the type which has two separate inputs & one output). _ This very simple wiring set-up allows for either keeping the completely stock-system wired-up just as originally, except that with the flip of the added 2way-switch, ya then go from using just the stock half-wave rectification (50% of alt) set-up and switch-over to (my original) full-wave rectification (& 100% of alt) set-up ! _ (Back in the '70s after I had suggested this simple & cheap method, posted in the DIOC-newsletter, I soon thereafter sold-off my entire supply of 25A/200V bridge-blocks [mostly to 750GT-owners]!) _ This method has been used the most by myself & others !
__ My other method requires 3 power-diodes & 1 or 2 simple On/Off-toggle switches...
With this (slightly more complex, with two added switches & an extra/3rd diode) set-up, it's possible to use just the stock charging-system set-up, and with the flip of either one of the two added switches (to On), ya then get 75% of the total available power-juice (from the stock-alt), while turning-on both switches will then allow 100% of the available power-juice !
This method, (and even the prior one), ought be used along with an ammeter (for measuring charge-juice in & out of the battery (so that ya can best know exactly when to have the added-power turned-on.
Unfortunately, it's very quite doubtful that anyone other than myself has ever thought to try-out this method, and I admit that after I did it (on a 750GT), it was rarely ever used in the 75% mode.
__ The main difference between these two different set-ups is that the first-method requires a Single-Pole-Double-Throw switch, while the later-method needs (at least) one simple On/Off switch (for switching between 50 & 100% alt.output), plus a 3rd added power-diode.
Either of these two wiring/method set-ups retains the use of the stock Ducati (6 or 12 volt) Rectifier-Regulator unit, so thus any concern about including any other regulator, is not really called-for (unless ya don't retain a stock-type battery, in your modified-system) !
____ Before I bother to pick one of these methods for further hook-up explanation & it's scheme-diagram, I'll wait for someone to suggest that choice for me, (as why else should I spend my time on such if there's nobody who's really interested?).


Fun-Cheers,
-Bob

UPDATE... Well here it is 2-days later and nobody has asked for further info on how to hook-up EITHER of the two simple methods for doubling the power of the stock charging-system.
Due to the very great interest in such after I had boasted of it back in the days when the DIOC-newsletter was about the only means of mass-connection between us Dukers, and the lack of interest (in this modification) now,, I assume that the reason is at least partially due to the fact that the stock 12v-units are no longer very obtainable.
____ Anyhow, I've decided that since I've already given-out the instructions for my original charging-system modification to many others in the past, I should thus first cover here, the later system-mod (which nobody other than myself knows of).
__ Like my original (& similar) charging-system modification, this one allows the stock-system to be left just as it originally was ! ...
__ The first of the simple connections to be made is to splice-in an extension-wire into each of the two stock Yellow alt.wire-leads (which are to be left connected to the stock R.R.box-unit), so as to 'tap-into' the alternator's Max.power-output. _ Each of those newly-added extension-wires (which ought also be yellow), is to be connected to the 'butt-end' of it's own dedicated power-diode, and the nose-end of each diode is to be connected to it's own dedicated On/Off-switch. - (That's 2 extension-wires & 2 power-diodes & 2 switches, to thus have two separate & identical added DC-circuit-outputs !)
Both of these two pos.DC-outputs may then be combined and fed to the Battery's positive terminal-pole. _ However since I liked my added toggle-switches placed up in the headlamp-shell or the instrument-panel, I preferred connecting one of the toggle-switched DC-outputs to the B+.feed-wire for the light-switch, and the other one to the B+.feed for the ign.key-switch circuit, (instead of running any wire all the way back to the battery [where it's contained current-juice would then just have to turn-around & come-back up-through the main B+.power-wire again]!).
__ The final-step is to insert the 3rd power-diode, (required for this particular mod), into the connection between the Pos.terminal-pole of the Battery and the stock R.R.box-unit -(often simply referred to as the"regulator"). _ To do this, the stock wire connection between the battery and the R.R.unit must be disconnected (preferably at the R.R.unit), and the diode's nose-end then connected to the wire from the battery, with the diode's butt-end connected to the alt.terminal* located on the R.R.unit, (* that stock alt.terminal has only been put there merely for convenience & makes no connection with the internals of the stock R.R.unit!).
(This 3rd diode prevents the waste of [otherwise unused] negative-pulses at the alt.center-tap -[Red alt.wire].)
__ With this set-up, either of the two added On/Off-switches will allow an otherwise unusable 1/4th of the alternator's total available power-juice to be dumped into the electrical-system's supply of pos.DC. ...
-{Side-NOTE - This 3/4ths (of total alt.power) option is possible because the alternator has two separate power-windings which NORMALLY are each half-wave rectified only ONE at-a-time and thus only HALF of the time !!
However, whenever in this 3/4ths mode with just ONE of the (added two) switches turned-On,, then, while one of the alternator's power-windings still remains half-wave rectified just half of the time (and unused the other half, thus supplying just 1/4th), the OTHER alt.power-winding is half-wave rectified ALL the time (which is what's referred to as 'full-wave' rectification), thus supplying 2/4ths (of the combined 3/4ths).}
And of course with both of the added switches turned-on, ALL 4/4ths -(the two normal 4ths, plus, BOTH of the auxiliary 4ths) of the alternator's total possible power-output, are then available for consumption !
__ If only ONE added switch is desired, then the two out-puts of the pair of added power-diodes can instead be combined BEFORE then being connected to just a single On/Off-switch, (but THEN of course there's no 3/4ths-power option!)
____ If there's anyone (such as MotoMike) who's 'up-to-speed' on this kind of stuff and would like a scheme-diagram to analyze my presented circuit-modification (for confirmed validity), then please ask,, and I'll then bother to make-up one to be posted here.

____ BTW, if this '3-diode mod' seems undesirable to ya because of the inconvenience of having to figure-out how to go-about mounting single power-diodes, I solved that issue by simply using the very easy to mount bridge-blocks ! _ Ya can choose to either wire them up so as to use only one of the block's 4 internal diodes,, or (as I do), simply hook them up so as to easily make use of all 4 of it's diodes (which then spreads-out the current-load through the block thus doubling it's current-capacity, as well as cut in half any reverse-current leakage, also !!).


Fun-Cheers,
DCT-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

Jordan
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby Jordan » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:42 pm

I tried reading Bob's post a couple of times, but my brain starts to hurt about half way through.
Any chance some sketches, to make it easier to visualise the ideas?

Jordan

DewCatTea-Bob
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DCT-Bob's Extended Post Wording

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:01 am

" I tried reading Bob's post a couple of times, but my brain starts to hurt about half way through."

____ I wonder WHICH post (and what part) ?
__ I certainly can understand how my long posts may be fairly difficult to follow-through, Jordan ! _ As I do include much excess information-wording throughout ! _ That excess wording is petty-much added to help keep the reader reminded of the thought(s) that are supposed to be kept in mind while reading the ACTUALly intended info. _ I purposely go through a lot of extra care & thought to make sure that my sentence-wording makes proper sense both without & with reading the excess-wording (which is always bracketed like this), all at once. _ To help the reader get through a paragraph without getting his thoughts stumbled, I try to put all the excess-wording within these- ( -here- ) -bracket-marks, and by reading-through while skipping-over all my wording kept within those bracketed-spaces, it's still quite possible to understand the remaining sentence !
__ All my adult-life, I've ALWAYS used CAPs for only my main-text, with only the excess/unnecessary-wording presented in lower-case lettering, so as to help the reader keep the less necessary thoughts more easily separated & distinguished from the main-thought of the sentence. _ And that's what I also did here at first too, until Jim soon-there-after made a rule against using CAPs at this w.site, supposedly because it's "yelling", these crazy internet days, (due originally to 'chatting' on the net).
__ If I could've typed all my main-wording in bright-Red and my secondary-wording in dim-orange (or something the like), then I would've, if it wasn't so complicated to add here.
__ Whenever I myself run-into such extended written-wording, I first go-through a paragraph reading only it's main-text, then read it again including the extra-wording within the bracketed-( )-spaces which I had ignored during my first read-through. _ Doing that then better helps me stay on the correct/intended track-of-thought, as I continue-forth reading onward !
____ If there's any other wording issue of mine that seems to impede straight-forward conveyance of thought, then PLEASE copy/isolate the batch of wording that's of concern, and I will then GLADLY offer the same intended-thought, in other words ! _ Cuz I do wish to make sure that ONLY my intended thoughts are conveyed (and NOT any possible confusion) !


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

Jordan
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby Jordan » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:19 am

Thanks for your willingness to clarify. It's the message directly above my plea. Some ideas are best presented graphically, like a wiring schematic.
Quickest way might be to just use pen & paper, scan the sketch and attach it here.
I could probably concentrate more and figure out what you're saying, but it's torture :)

Jordan

DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:02 am

" It's the message directly above my plea. "

____ Okay Jordan, directly above your plea for a scheme-diagram, I have a double-extended post, of which the first half mentions that I have TWO separate methods to tap-into the otherwise unused alternator-power,, and the bottom half, which concerns only the method which I've never publicly shared before.
It's apparently the bottom-section of that post which you're concerned with and wish for help to envision the circuit-mods suggested within that section.


" Some ideas are best presented graphically, like a wiring schematic. "

____ I of course agree but, in this case the ADDED circuit-mods are actually so very simple ! _ (As anyone who understands such as it, would certainly agree!)
I had tried to use wording to describe the connections so that anyone could easily draw-up their own sketch-plans from it (if desired), as the given connections are really pretty-simple. _ It will take me a fair bit of time to make & submit my own scheme-diagram here, as I have no working scanner.
But before I go-ahead & get started (with ONE), I feel the need to point-out that that covered circuit-method is not the simplest, of my two different methods (mentioned in the first-half of my extended-post). ...
That particular circuit-method covered (thus far), requires 3 power-diodes & 2 On/Off switches, while my simpler circuit-method requires only 2 power-diodes & 1 dual-position switch.
The only disadvantage of the simpler circuit-method, is that it doesn't offer the 3/4ths (of total alt.power) possibility !
__ So if you (agree with me and) really prefer the ability (while riding) to be able to choose 2/4ths or 3/4ths or 4/4ths of the stock alternator's total output-power, then let me know and I'll get the associated scheme-diagram posted here asap.
But if you may prefer my most popular circuit-method, which merely allows 2/4ths -(which is just as stock!), & 4/4ths (switch-position) choices, then in that case, we ought currently concentrate on the simpler circuit-method, (instead) !
__ To give a brief description of THAT (even simpler!) circuit-method, I'll LIST the mods as follows.....
1st - an added (yellow)- wire 'tapped' into one of the Yellow alt.wire-leads (to the stock Rect.Reg.box-unit)...
2nd - a second added wire/tap into the OTHER Yellow alt.wire-lead -(which is of course also connected to [it's own terminal on] the stock R.R.box-unit, [as stock])...
3rd - a power-diode (butt-end) is connected to one of the added (preferably yellow) wire/taps...
4th - a second power-diode is (likewise) connected to the other added wire/tap...
5th - the required 'dual-switch' -(with it's 3 terminals) is connected as follows.....
A) - it's center-terminal is connected (preferably indirectly) to the battery's positive post-terminal...
B) - one of it's (two) outer-terminals is connected to the stock red-wire that's connected to the R.R.box-unit (of which that particular red-terminal is actually merely connected to JUST the Red alt.wire-lead!)...
C) - it's other outer-terminal is connected to the combined outputs (rather INputs actually), of the 'nose-end' of the two added power-diodes .
__ If these above simple hook-up connections are not already clearly kept/pictured in-mind, then with that (even further) simplified set of connection/hook-up instructions, it should be as easy as possible to convert the written-word into some kind of sketched-diagram, so as to better conceive the intended connection-scheme !
And once that diagram has been completed, then it should be quite easy to also understand the (slight) differences of the OTHER circuit-method (with the 3/4ths-option), as well !


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

Jordan
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby Jordan » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:45 am

No scanner? What about the Microsoft Paint program? Probably all you need for a rough sketch, and it's included with Windows if that's what you use.
I really think it's worthwhile getting your information in graphical form. Accessibility is everything, and we want the advantage of your experiences.

Jordan

DewCatTea-Bob
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Modified W-C Charging-System - Scheme-Diagram

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:33 pm

____ First I must say that I didn't expect you to be on-line so early to notice my reply-post (to yours) before I (finally) got all-done with it, Jordan.
Anyhow.....


" What about the Microsoft Paint program? "

____ I am indeed familiar with such a Win.program and have already used it a few times for this w.site ... (For example, as found on the bottom of the page at this following link: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=144&start=40#p2802 .)


" I really think it's worthwhile getting your information in graphical form. "

____ I don't disagree ! ... If you had completely read-though my extended-posting, you then ought to have noticed that I had mentioned I would go-ahead & bother to make & post a scheme-diagram, IF anybody showed any interest.
Since you've now done that, I'll put it on my things-to-do list, (after you confirm you're still interested in the same/ ['3/4ths-option'] circuit-method).


Fun-Cheers,
-Bob

UPDATE! ... I've now acted on the suggested suggestion...
Please note my now added scheme-diagram, which is intended for the 'simplest' (50/100) circuit-method that requires: an added bridge-block -(containing the two NEEDED [& convenient!] power-diodes), and a 3-terminal dual-switch.
With this extra-easy set-up, ya can choose either to allow just the stock 2/4ths of alt.power,, OR, allow all 4/4ths, (thus about doubling the stock charging-system's total power-output !).
__ It would be nice if MotoMike would look-over and offer any comments he may have ! _ As he's a good (independent) thinker on this kind of stuff, and his opinion is always quite welcome ! _ Or also anyone else, may chime-in with an opinion (either for or against), as well ! _ I'd look forward to it.
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PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob


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