Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

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wcorey
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby wcorey » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:58 pm

In lieu of a scanner, it works just as well to snap a (digital) photo of a diagram and post as such.


Bill

Jordan
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby Jordan » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:48 pm

That's good, Bob.
Thanks,
Jordan

joe46ho
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby joe46ho » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:33 pm

Bob,
First I would like to say I have enjoyed reading your posts related to the electrical and charging systems used on Ducati singles. I am currently restoring my dad's (neglected since 1976ish) 1970 450 Scr for my brother. In the near future (when funds permit) I will also be restoring my dad's 1969 Mark III 350 Desmo. The 450 Scr was chosen to do first because of the condition of the motorcycle (fair overall, stored in a dry shed for the past 35 years, still full of oil, etc...) Anyhow, without getting off topic here, I am getting ready to do the final re-assembly of the engine (99% of the needed parts already sourced and acquired, crankshaft just returned from syd's, all parts cleaned and inspected, etc...) I am intending to use your wiring scheme as depicted in your 1-24-2011 post ? If memory serves. I understand the system you have depicted here, and think it is a perfect fit for my brother's duke. My questions are as follows
#1- The bridge/rectifier you would recommend for this set up would be a 200piv 25amp ? I only ask so, I am sure to order the correct one.
#2- Is partially on topic, and partially not... I am also building (at the same current time) another duke for myself, it is however a n/c 250 Mark III, built out of "spares" that my dad also had in the aforementioned "shed" for the past 35 years, along with a frame sourced on ebay, and various other pieces. I had no charging system parts, so I purchased a 60w n/c alt. setup on ebay. I have read the posts by yourself, moto-mike, and wcorey in "6 or 12volt" "methods to increase output from n-c twin wirelead alternators" etc... There are so many options covered I dont know what to do yet honestly, one thing i dont believe was mentioned though is this...(my real question) I have no early "black box" I do however have 3 later w/c reg/rec assemblies (not sure of part number, but all 3 where removed from the aforementioned w/c scr, 350 desmo, and a third w/c scrambler which is long gone from my dad's "stash") Can I use my 60w n/c Alt. wired exactly as I intend on wiring the 450 scr per your wiring scheme depicted in the earlier post (asssuming of course I un-solder and combine the 2 ground leads then use 3 conductors to exit the engine at the gland nut) 2 yellow, 1 red respectively... Would this be the way to go ( I realize it will not offer the same output as with the w/c 70w alternator) BUT...since A: I already have a spare w/c reg/rec B: the bridge/rec. being used are inexpensive, and C: sourcing an early n/c "black box" is difficult, and most I see look horribly abused, not to mention this "third duke" im speaking of (the n/c 250) will not be "correct" no matter what I do, because of lack of orig. parts, frame was modified by previous owner, etc... I had all but made up my mind to use the system you depicted in the other thread on increasing output on twin lead alternators (and I still may do just that) but I wanted to know your opinion on which system might be better suited to my n/c 250.
In other words, given the parts I have to work with, and given the facts the alt. is removed from engine already, I am not concerned with the wiring "looking original" and I am also not concerned with the "complexity" of the system (which I know you have pointed out others might be, in the previous post covering the use of 2 bridge recs, along with combining/isolationg the grounds, and using no factory voltage regualtor, but using a toggle switch between one of the pdc outputs of one of the recs, and the battery positive terminal) What setup would you recommend ?

One other dumb question relating to that system which im sure you covered, but I have been doing so much reading im starting to confuse myself... by wiring the twin lead alt exactly as described, and grounding both recs to the battery/frame... that is intended to be a 12v system correct ? and if so, what a.h.rating 12v battery would you recommend ? what would happen if someone wired it exactly as described but did not removed/combine/isolate the grounds at the alt. ? would it be 6 volt or would it simply be "wrong" not really on topic i know, but I am just curious... ANY info/suggestions/input/corrections, etc...would be greatly appreciated...
Any further info you require from me... pics, part numbers, application related info, etc...I will surely submit if/when you request it. Thanks in advance, Joe


Side notes... I also have a 28w early n/c scr charging system to use, however I dont wish to do so...
I do intend to run a battery on the n/c 250
I want to run a higher output headlamp, a horn, a tailight, standard points (battery ignition), and nothing else.
I am not fully commited to either 6v or 12v.

P.S. I have been following this forum for a while, but this is my first post...
If anyone needs my assistance with measurements of stock duke parts, fitment questions, or any issue that could possibly be resolved by utilizing the large "cache" of Ducati single parts I have at my disposal, feel free to send me a message. I have noticed people posting in the past about needing things of that nature...
Too many projects to list...
12 Ducati singles currently

DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:54 pm

____ Okay Joe, referring to your post directly above, I'll get-around to covering everything but, rather than doing it all here, I will just cover the wide-case related stuff, and take the narrow-case stuff to a related thread. - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=144&p=4700#p4700


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

DewCatTea-Bob
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Adding Additional Diodes to a WideCase Charging-system

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:28 am

" I am currently restoring my dad's 1970 450 Scr for my brother.
I am intending to use your wiring scheme as depicted in your 1-24-2011 post ?
My questions are as follows
#1- The bridge/rectifier you would recommend for this set up would be a 200piv 25amp ? "

____ Those ratings don't actually need to be so high, as near half ought be sufficient,, so the main reason for recommending that particular set of specs, is simply because the related rectifier-block (with those specs) is a popular & common model of such.


" I only ask so, I am sure to order the correct one. "

____ One of the reasons for recommending the '25-amp/200-volt' bridge-rectifier, is because that model should be available locally. _ If you live out of town and thus have to 'order' such, then the place you order from will no-doubt have other rectifier-models to choose from, in which case you just need one that's easy to mount & connect-up to, with a minimum of 10-amp & 100-volt handling. _ (One ought to cost under 3 bucks.)


____ Additional note... It's really not a good idea to try to increase the charging-system's power, unless you've added additional load (to the stock load-system), which you've learned that the stock charging-system can't handle under your particular riding-conditions. _ As the stock wide-case charging-system can handle considerably more power-load than the stock load-system.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

joe46ho
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby joe46ho » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:12 am

Ok, thanks Bob, I will note that... Im in Cincinnati, The only place I really have in town that carries any components is Radio Shack, And I have looked through there stock....The only similar Rec they had was a 50 piv/25 amp (#276-1185) So I will be ordering them from Parts Express or a similar vendor...There are a few to choose from (online) which meet the minimum specs you describe and do indeed cost under $3.00. My brother does intend on running an increased output headlamp (for now) and in the future, an electronic ignition, and a dyna coil with ballast resistor also ( similar to what other members on here have reported they have on there duke) This is the main reason this modification seems to suit his 450 scr so well, because I can install the system/wire his duke as described herein and he can run the stock system for now, and down the road he can do the other upgrades he intends to, without removing/changing anything I have already done. Thanks for your time, I will keep an eye out for for info on the n/c twin lead alternator topics, in the mean time I will be working on the assembly of my brother's 450 scr engine. Cheers... Joe
Too many projects to list...
12 Ducati singles currently

DewCatTea-Bob
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Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:53 am
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Re: Various Alternate Charging-Systems for W-C Alternators

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:38 am

" The only place I really have in town that carries any components is Radio Shack, And I have looked through there stock....The only similar Rec they had was a 50 piv/25 amp "

____ I'm familiar with that, (it's quite strange that R.S. doesn't carry the common 200v version!), and while they carry other rectifiers that would do the job electrically, physically, they're not so easy to mount.
The model they do sell is fine but, it's possible that it's 50v break-down voltage could be exceeded if the key-switch is turned-off during high-revs. _ Surpassing it's 50v limit could be prevented by using two of them in series.
__ Many television/electronic repair-shops carry a line of electronic-parts named 'PolyPacs'... You could call-around & see who carries them.
I've used the PolyPacs 25a/200v rect.block many times ! _ Even small towns usually have a dealer for that brand of elect.parts.
Also, I recall (from the '70s) that your city had another electronics-dealer called 'Layfette Electronics', are they no longer in business ?


" My brother does intend on running an increased output headlamp "

____ What headlamp will his 450 employ ? ...
The stock w-c system can well handle a 45/65w Sylvania-ST H4 (made for motorcycles).


" and in the future, an electronic ignition, and a dyna coil with ballast resistor also "

____ Most electronic-ign.systems require LESS power-juice than stock, but even if slightly more, the stock w-c charging-system can still handle it okay.


" I will keep an eye out for for info on the n/c twin lead alternator topics, "

____ I intend to get-around to your other n-c related stuff soon, within the thread for that topic.
_ UPDATE - I've now fully responded to the rest of your post, within the related thread.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob


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