engine removal

[Fossilrider]

Hey guys, Steve here. I am finally starting the resto on the 350 Sebring I bought 2 or 3 years ago and today I pulled the engine. I am probably missing something simple here but I had to literally pry the front frame down tube forward to get the front of the engine up and out. The factory workshop manual was no help as it simply says to "remove the bolts and lift the engine out" (basically). What I don't want to do is destroy a fresh paint job when the engine goes back in. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Steve (Fossil)

[blaat!]

I just did this, and the engine installation description in the manual worked (see below). As you finesse it in, be sure the motor is at the proper height. I installed before wheels and shimmed the motor up with some pieces of soft pine. You may want to use a few layers of painters tape on the front down tube and any other areas if you see the motor getting close. A second set of hands is good if you can get it

4703D617-C8A6-46A9-92B6-68C672055876.jpeg

Oh and I think you need to remove the oil fill tube and leave the carb off too.

[Bob_Matthews]

Hi Steve
Maybe the bike has been in a front end accident which has pushed the downtube backwards?
With all the engine bolts slack, you should be able to 'rattle' the engine in its mounts with no one bolt taking any strain, and if any of bolts are difficult to get out (or in), then you have some miss-alignment.

[themoudie]

Aye Steve,

I agree with Bob's comment. Before getting any paint job sorted out, make sure the frame alignment is thoroughly checked, as from your comment it would appear that yours has had a front end collision and the steering head tube has been bent back in the frame. Check the rake and trail, with the forks and wheels secured in their working positions and no engine in situ. Otherwise get it set up in a frame jig by a professional frame builder.

I attach an image of my 450 MKIII frame in such a jig showing a twist in the steering head tube, I know why, because I bent it in a spectacular road crash! Heat and large levers had the problem sorted, but I had ridden it with the twist for over twenty years. The bike went round left-handers easier than right-handers!

Good health, Bill

[LaceyDucati]

Hello

I've removed narrowcase engines many hundreds of times, without issue. There is a slight "knack" to it, but there is certainly no need to force the frame in doing so. Unless the frame was visibly very bent I don't think there could be any real issue. Once the engine plates are removed there is plenty of room. With all the bolts and selector box removed it's a matter of removing the engine from the left hand side. I reach through the frame at the back with one hand then by pulling the engine forward slightly and up at the back you will find in a certain position the engine will come out with a slight twisting motion easily without any hard mechanical interference. Think of those little metal puzzles that come out of Christmas crackers and you will be on the right track. Once you have figured it out, you will wonder what all the fuss was about, please don't force it out and damage the frame!

Regards Nigel

[Fossilrider]

Thanks all, for the replies and suggestions. This bike is somewhat of a mystery to me. I am by no means new to restoring motorcycles but this one has sent me mixed signals. The odometer reads 1202 miles and I think that might be true since the brake drum wear surface looks almost brand new (my friend saw the condition of the surface and said "they must have dragged their feet to stop"!). On the other hand the outside of the engine was pretty dirty with a pretty fair build up of oil/grime on the front finned area. Also it appears that the engine has been out before since a couple of the engine mounting bolts are too long and were shimmed with washers, unless they might have vibrated out and were replaced by whatever was at hand.? When I got it the top end was off and there was no wear in the bore but some rust from sitting , so I had the cylinder rebored to a new piston and am getting ready to reassemble the top end as soon as I get the engine cleaned and ready for paint. The bike is very complete and there are no signs of wreck damage. Maybe I went about the engine removal the wrong way.? It appeared to me that the front of the engine has to come up first, followed by the rear since the rear sits back in the "horseshoe" shaped frame section but maybe I am wrong on that. Anyway, I will certainly protect the frame with tape when re-installing the engine. Thanks again, Steve

[themoudie]

Aye Steve,

I am pleased that you had no signs of the machine having been in an accident.

Your second last sentence methodology description

It appeared to me that the front of the engine has to come up first, followed by the rear since the rear sits back in the "horseshoe" shaped frame section but maybe I am wrong on that.

is a direct opposite from Nigel's methodology description

I reach through the frame at the back with one hand then by pulling the engine forward slightly and up at the back you will find in a certain position the engine will come out with a slight twisting motion easily without any hard mechanical interference.

so I am not surprised that you had a wrestling session removing the engine. At least the engine unit is a lightweight compared with some other singles. A NC engine can be picked up and "juggled", whilst a Yamaha SRX600, XT600E or SZR660 engine require you to position the engine and then adjust the frame position around it and doing it alone is strenuous and stressful!

When rebuilding my SRX Mono, I installed the engine without marking the frame and then tried to install the air box! I hadn't asked and didn't know, as a Monoshock frame is very different from the twin shock frame that the air box has to be installed before the engine and no amount of juggling allows those two initial installations to be reversed!

If you cannot do a dry run, I would suggest another pair of agile and competent hands when you come to do the job could save a lot of grief.

All the best and good health, Bill

[Fossilrider]

Bingo! Boy is my face red. Like I said, I am by no means new to restoring bikes, or cars (just wrapped up a '70 Jeep Commando), but I totally missed that tidbit. Anyway, got the head cleaned and ready for paint today, which is always a pain getting between the fins and in all the nooks. I thought many times yesterday and today about just how much I would like to have a vapor honer, although you still need to do quite a bit of the heavy cleaning prior to putting things into the cabinet. I have a couple friends who have them and they are very nice. I'm still trying to decide exactly what I am going to do with this project. This model Sebring came with the "square-ish" bodywork (tank and fenders) which I have never really liked, especially the headlight. I believe the earlier Sebrings had the pretty rounded tank and fenders which I have on hand and will probably use. That said, I will probably keep the side cover/tool box that came with the original tin. I don't think I have seen anyone use this combo but, if it looks OK, it will keep me from cutting the mounting tabs off the frame and welding more on. When I change anything on a somewhat rare vehicle that is basically complete I like to be able to go back stock if I want to later. Also still thinking about paint/powder coat and colors. I plan to strip the frame tomorrow and get it ready for whatever I decide. As always, I really appreciate the responses. Steve

[Fossilrider]

Well just a quick update. I have made some pretty good progress and am excited. I got the frame painted, the engine back in, and I am currently about to install the head and start rebuilding the forks. I will see if I can post a pic, although I have had trouble doing so before. Thanks again for the help guys.

[Duccout]

Thanks for the pic, looks great.