64 duc resto

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" I measured the port...... 29.6+mm or 1 and 3/16" "

____ The "29.6" is spot-on, but the 1&3/16-inch reading is too close to 30mm to be stock factory-work, so I'm guessing that you must've rounded-up that figure !?


" the foot pegs are not rear set "

____ I'm not an expert on the Mach-I, (doubt there is any in the USA), but just as like the early 1965-Mk3s, I highly suspect that the very-early Mach-Is did not have rear-sets either, as well. _ I think most all those added part changes came later, about the time when those two model-lines were also given their very-own DM motor-number line, for the 1966 model-year.
I'm thinking that Ducati/Berliner would first try getting their feet-wet to test the market, before bothering to completely tool-up for mass-production of a NEW model-line.


" the title says 1964, "

____ I think that would be consistent with a test-market version for the 1965 Mach-I model-line, however that doesn't really jive with Berliner's more common practice of forward-titling of their imported DUCATIs, and it therefore seems that they would've been so inclined to have it titled as a '65-model. _ Unless perhaps it was imported & tested within the U.S. so soon in 1964, that it had to be titled with that same year.
Does the motor-number exactly match the number stated on your title? _ If so, what does the title state the Model to be??


" some of these things, from my limited knowlege don't point to a mach 1.
The original tank has an area cut out for a large carb. the front brakes are vented. there is no tach, "

____ How about a good pic or two of that cut-out area of your tank ?
The fake-vented hub-covers were becoming introduced on most all other models for 1965, (so they were probably already in production during 1964).
The lack of a tach is another (non)-feature which distinguishes a Mach-I from a Mark-3 !
__ How many teeth do (each of) your front & rear sprockets have? _ And do your wheels have the older -(7 narrow & deep ribs), or the newer -(3 wide & shallow ribs), type of spoke-hubs?


" Could this bike just be a pile of parts put together? "

____ Yes, it could be that somebody very knowledgeable about the Mach-I may have tried to recreate one...
However if that was the case, then why would they bother to do some of the harder to accomplish & less known Mach-I changes and yet not also do all the easier & more obviously known model changes?? _ Also, after all their effort to create a Mach-I, how could they let it go without also caring to make sure to pass-on to the next owner that it's a very rare Mach-1 (rather than let it be thought of as a more common "Diana")? _ As somebody who's smart enough to know how to create a Mach-I, would also be smart enough to know that it could not be passed-off as any Diana !
Even though the chance of some Mach-I looking-alike DUKE being a real-actual 'Mach-I' model, is very unlikely-odds here within the USA,, the chance that it's a (seemingly imperfect) Mach-I want-to-be copy, is looking to me to be fairly unlikely also !
__ Let's see if we can run a little pole here by asking anyone who cares to chime-in with their opinion...
Is a Mach-I only a Mach-I when it's all factory-original ly built, or, or can a DUKE be considered to be a Mach-I so long as it's got everything that an original Mach-I had ??
My own opinion is that another DUKE-model that's been purposely converted to look like a Mach-I, is not really a 'Mach-I' ! _ But if there's no detectable-clue that a Mach-I looking DUKE was not built by the factory as a 'Mach-I', then I'm willing to let it be considered as being a Mach-I, (regardless of who-ever actually put it all together) !


" I have had more fun learning on this forum than I can say. "

____ That's really great!
__ I was once planning to create my very own w.site to be named: 'DUKEs-ONLY.info', but this one keeps me content, well enough !
Could you please tell us how you found this Duc-Singles w.site (with it's no-clue -[non-DUCATI] naming) ?


" below are some pics
the keyed switches "

____ Thanks for all the pix !
__ Those two different key-switches could be the two types I had mentioned of...
Do you have any way to check their contact-circuits?


DUKE-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[evil]

The "26.6" is spot-on, but the 1&3/16-inch reading is too close to 30mm to be factory-work

You can see the mm measurement on the caliper. I was just double checking with a tape measure... also this is a bad photo angle.

64 duc 055 small.JPG

Does the motor-number exactly match the number stated on your title? _ If so, what does the title state the Model to be??

Yes, the motor # does match. 88005. the Model was "MC" for motorcycle and someone wrote in pen "Diana" and as I have seen with titleing my own pieces. I could tell them it's an 1864 and they would put that on it.

How about a good pic or two of that cut-out area of your tank ?

64 duc 076 small.JPG

The fake-vented hub-covers were becoming introduced on other models during 1965

I haven't had a look at the brakes... are those really fake? Why would a company that make bikes to race add weight with a fake part? Weird.

And do your wheels have the older -(7 narrow & deep ribs), or the newer -(3 wide & shallow ribs), type of spoke-hubs?

From some of the pics it looks like narrow and deep but I will get a look tonight.

Those two different key-switches could be the two types I had mentioned of...
Do you have any way to check their contact-circuits?

I used a continuity tester and when the key was inserted and turned all four lugs had continuity, But only with their opposites.... the top and bottom were together and the two sides were together.

both switches.JPG

[evil]

I am finding that I can get parts but they are all over the world.... is there a main "catch all" site that has parts?

What about a rear view mirror? I am planning to ride this bike and I would love to see the Hogs fade out behind me.
I have some older (maybe original .... you be the judge) grips, with one having a hole in the end... perhaps for a mirror insert?

64 duc 098 small.JPG

More pics:

64 duc 028 small.JPG

Which speedo should go on this bike? The one that doesn't say Ducati is currently installed.

speedos.JPG

lastly........
Do you really think I can start calling this a Mach 1? Are there other tests I can do? Is it one of those noticable...... "you'll know it when you ride it" differences?
Honestly, the model could be called a bannana stomper and I wouldn't care (call a rose by any other name syndrome...) because the bike is...... well, it's awe inspiring. But when I put it in bike shows, or am B.S.ing with some cycle heads, or god forbid... if I have to sell it. It would be really great to say, with confidence, that yes this is a Rare 1964 Ducati Mach 1.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" You can see the mm measurement on the caliper. I was just double checking with a tape measure... "

____ A tape-measure reading is not accurate enough to make sure that someone didn't port-out a GT-head to the factory-size of the port of the large-valve cyl.heads. _ I really doubt that anybody would bother to increase the port-size EXACTLY the correct 3.0mm amount!


" someone wrote in pen "Diana" and as I have seen with titleing "

____ Whoever did that, had little knowledge of all the mid-60s Ducati-models,
and if they had successfully gotten it's model-name changed to 'Diana', then they would've also caused it's value to be less, (compared to the Mach-I model-name) !


" are those really fake? Why would a company that make bikes to race add weight with a fake part? "

____ I really believe that Berliner was behind the idea for the fake air-scoops, (along with other such sales-gimmicks of the day, such as the 150-MPH speedo-dials), so as to fool prospective-buyers into choosing a Ducati.


" From some of the pics it looks like narrow and deep but I will get a look tonight. "

____ The 7-fin type wheel-hub is consistent with stock-DUKEs thru-until 1966.


" when the key was inserted and turned all four lugs had continuity, But only with their opposites.... "

____ That seems right, as the proper switch for your elec.system should connect two SEPARATE circuits when-ever it's key is locked-in...
So when terminals A1 & B2 become connected (when key is inserted) then C3 & D4 should be connected (only to each other), but the two separate pairs should NOT have any connection with each other (either with key IN or with key OUT!).


Stay-Tuned,
-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" Which speedo should go on this bike? The one that doesn't say Ducati is currently installed. "

____ You have two? _ What's the limit on the other speedo? ...
I believe that the Mach-I models were intended to be stock with 150MPH dials (ask Jim), but since you may have one that was built before the Mach-I model-line became established, it's likely that Ducati installed pre-existing 100MPH units at that early time.


" Do you really think I can start calling this a Mach 1? Are there other tests I can do?

____ If the Mach-I wasn't so darn rare here in the USA, I'm sure I would've already proclaimed yours to be an original 'Mach-I' !
But first we should check for EVERYTHING that a Mach-I should have...
If it doesn't have a Mach-I's 'heart' - the Grey -(colored)/M1-camshaft, then I'd say it's not a true Mach-I,, as even an original factory-built 'Mach-I' is no longer a true 'Mach-I' without it's M1-cam, in my opinion !
You could pull-off the cyl.head & double-check that it has the 40mm & 36mm valves, and make-sure the engine still has it's high-cr 3-ring piston.
__ Also, I meant to ask before if there are any (excess) mounting-tabs (for possible side-covers) on the frame anywhere near the battery's location?


" But when I put it in bike shows, or am B.S.ing with some cycle heads, or god forbid... if I have to sell it. It would be really great to say, with confidence, that yes this is a Rare 1964 Ducati Mach 1. "

____ You just might be able to do that ! _ Although I'm thinking that it's more likely some kind of a 'pre-Mach1 Mach I' .
(But it sure-can't rightfully be referred to as any 'Diana' model !)
__ I'm thinking that this DUKE of yours was originally sent to Berliner in 1964 as a test-Mach1 for them to check-out, and somebody there then put it (legally) on the road, before later selling it off as a used model.
__ Too bad it can't be traced-back to the very-first person who owned the original-title !
What state are you in?


DUKE-Cheers,
-Bob

[Eldert]

it is very hard to tell what this bike original was .
it looks like a mismatch of parts . the upper tripple clamp should be a smooth one when clipons are fittted
the rear shocks are shrouded . the Mark III and Mach 1 had rearshocks with exposed springs
the cushdrive where the rear sprocked is mounted to is a later type with ribs going from the bearing to the M7 bolts
the 7 rib Amadoro drums did not have this only the later drums

tank looks Mach 1 but a mach 1 should have a very special curved kickstarter and matching rearbrake pedal

i am by no means knocking down your bike ( it is a very nice bike ) but it left the factory about 45 years ago and
its hard to tell what al happend to it somewhere in its lifespan

BTW Mongo on this forum has a bike with engine nr 88012 so very close to yours

good luck getting it running again

Eldert

[evil]

Here is a link to more Duc Photos on Flikr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52696128@N03/?saved=1