crankcase wont split

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Scottish888
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland UK

Re: crankcase wont split

Postby Scottish888 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:28 pm

Just found that on ebay, will buy but with Easter hol's wont arrive for another week but can use jordan's method in the meantime.
Can anyone tell me how the clutch pushrod seal/washer fits exactly? to me it looks like it is behind the bearing case and behind the outer case which has been staked in four places, so maybe fitted from the outside then the case deformed to retain it?

Regards

LaceyDucati
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Re: crankcase wont split

Postby LaceyDucati » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:28 pm

The welding method suggested works well if you have the means and if the bearing is not too tight sometimes a rawl masonary bolt can sometimes grip enough to get it out. Otherwise a kit like this is the idea thing.

https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/automotive/ ... ZT1120322X

If you are stuck for a machinist to do the repair up in Scotland I could do it, but postage would add up both ways.

Regards Nigel

Scottish888
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:47 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland UK

Re: crankcase wont split

Postby Scottish888 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:04 pm

Thanks Nigel,
I had a good look at the case tonight, seems how this washer was fitted by the factory was a one time only job as it is fitted from the outside then the casing is mashed to retain the steel washer and rubber grommet, not a simple procedure to replace, it also distorts the flange that retains the seal.
How about this idea, I see there is an internal flange about 5 mm deep just below the external staked part, if I was to drill out the external staked part to match the internal diameter (about 1mm lip to remove) I would then have a deeper section in which to fit a proper seal,(maybe clutch pushrod seal from some japanese bike?) I will need to measure accurately but it looks like a shouldered seal around 13.5mm would be a good tight fit and have a big enough casing shoulder to seal against.
I think it looks like a good mod but don't want to make things worse due to my inexperience of these bikes.
will put photo of area up later

blethermaskite
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Location: northern ireland

Re: crankcase wont split

Postby blethermaskite » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:05 pm

So the method I use to get that blind bearing out sounds a bit crude but it has always worked for me, source an old type steel rawl bolt of a suitable dimension to be just a little bigger than the inside bore of the bearing.....if you have a lathe turn it down to be a snug fit in the inner race or if not file or grind it to a good fit, then as you tighten the rawl bolt assemble it will taper lock into the inner race, now fit a big enough sleeve to clear the outside diameter of the bearing and a large thick washer over everything, if you now fit another nut on the rawl bolt you have just made a rough and ready blind bearing puller, heat the case up as normal and tightening the 2nd nut on the rawl bolt should remove the bearing.
Depending on the design of the rawl bolt you may need to shorten the body of the assembly a bit to gain enough threads on the internal taper bolt to achieve enough free threaded portion to effect the extraction clearance.
Cheers,
George

PhilR
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Location: High Peak, Derbyshire, UK

Re: crankcase wont split

Postby PhilR » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:54 pm

Bevel bob wrote:I once watched Vic Camps mechanic strip a motor at a race meeting. He worked really fast in order to split the cases while the motor was still hot from running. Put it in an oven.


this posting reminded me of my own experience. The flywheel span on the crank of my 250 Monza (my first bike). got it to Vic Camps and his trusty mechanic Bert stripped it. I remember the cases wouldn't come apart and he produced the biggest copper hammer I have ever seen, a few whacks later and it was apart. noticing my ashen face he just said ' its gota come apart before we can fix it'. Priceless...
I now own a larger copper hammer..

Scottish888
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland UK

Re: crankcase wont split

Postby Scottish888 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:56 pm

Thanks George,

Another great tip, I may have some large rawl bolts left over from my last construction project.

Regards

Jordan
Posts: 1380
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:29 am

Re: crankcase wont split

Postby Jordan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:40 pm

Scottish888 wrote:Good idea Jordan, thanks.
A long bolt welded on and use a slide hammer to extract?


Slide hammers are nice, but you could also use a thick walled tube bigger than the bearing's OD, or steel plate across the crankcase split surface, nut etc.
Last edited by Jordan on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jordan
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:29 am

Re: crankcase wont split

Postby Jordan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:41 pm

double diamond wrote:The proper tool to use is a blind hole bearing puller.

Matt


Yes, that is nicer than welding.

Scottish888
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:47 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland UK

Re: crankcase wont split

Postby Scottish888 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:52 am

Should every bearing be C3 or just the crank case and cams?
How about the bevel bearings?

Regards

old guy
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Location: southern California

Re: crankcase wont split

Postby old guy » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:00 pm

I had a similar problem with a narrow case 250. The dowels around the cylinder base were the problem. The solution was to fashion a flat plate that fit over the primary drive side (with holes for the crankshaft, gear box shaft, and dowels) and use a gear puller that grabbed the edges of the plate and pushed on the crankshaft. I used a 1/4" aluminum plate that I happened to have. I bolted it to the case using case holes. The gear puller was not centered exactly, but it was sufficient. Since the offending dowels are off center from the crankshaft, I kept opposing case bolts installed with some clearance so the pressure on the dowels would be straight (axial). Otherwise I was afraid a prying pressure on the dowels would break the cylinder base. It worked.


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