Mach1 engine stamp

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flynbulldog
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:38 am

Mach1 engine stamp

Postby flynbulldog » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:05 am

I have what looks like a Mach 1 frame with the correct lugs for rear-sets and tabs for the correct tool boxes but the engine has DM250M3 stamped indicating that it is a mark 3. Is it possible that a mach 1 came from the factory with an M3 engine?

double diamond
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Re: Mach1 engine stamp

Postby double diamond » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:01 pm

A late production Mach 1 could have had an M3 engine number.
Matt

flynbulldog
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Re: Mach1 engine stamp

Postby flynbulldog » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:35 pm

double diamond wrote:A late production Mach 1 could have had an M3 engine number.
Matt


Thanks Matt, this is a 1967 Mach1 so I suppose that would be considered late production.

Buster
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Location: Reading, UK.

Re: Mach1 engine stamp

Postby Buster » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:23 pm

This may help.

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double diamond
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Mach1 engine stamp

Postby double diamond » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:43 pm

Being in print does not necessarily make a statement accurate.

By 1967 Ducati had discontinued the Mach 1. The Mark 3 and Mach 1 frames were identical other than color. The only difference between the M1 and M3 was the electrical equipment.The M1 had full street electrical equipment and a battery/coil ignition. The M3 initially had only an energy transfer ignition, marginal provisions for lighting and no horn. Early USA market Mark 3's had M1 engine numbers but with the discontinuation of the M1, later engines were stamped M3. I've read accounts that late production M3's were assembled with the battery/coil electrical equipment but I've never seen one of this specification in the metal. If the engine you have has the energy transfer ignition system, then it's a Mark 3.

Matt

Buster
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:56 am
Location: Reading, UK.

Re: Mach1 engine stamp

Postby Buster » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:51 pm

double diamond wrote:A late production Mach 1 could have had an M3 engine number.
Matt



But it wouldn't be a Mach1.

double diamond
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Mach1 engine stamp

Postby double diamond » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:16 pm

That's probably correct. But Mick Walker stated that toward the end of production the Mach 1 and Mark 3 were essentially the same specification. Does this mean Mark 3 engines were assembled as Mach 1's? The only distinction would have been a red painted frame (Mach 1) vs. black frame (Mark 3). Early Mark 3's were assembled with M1 engines. Does this make these examples a Mach 1? Mark 3 equipment seemed to change every year but Mach 1 equipment stayed the same for the 2-3 years they were made. So Mach 1 specification is well documented. But Mark 3's came in any number of specifications, including with Mach 1 equipment. Since Mach 1's were not officially imported to the US by Berliner, there are few original examples to refer to in the US. European or Canadian markets would be a better source for original examples. Let alone that many Mach 1's have originated as early Mark 3's with M1 engine numbers. I've recognized that bona fide Mach 1's have a chassis number stamped on the frame backbone by the battery box. But I've also read accounts of bikes imported to the US, unrestored original Mach 1 with no chassis number. Absent any compelling evidence to the contrary, it would be difficult to argue that Mach 1's were never delivered with M3 engines.

Matt

flynbulldog
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:38 am

Re: Mach1 engine stamp

Postby flynbulldog » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:25 am

My biggest confusion comes from the rear-set lugs on the frame and the foot control configuration indicating that of a mach1. All of the mark 3 dianas that I've seen have standard mid placement foot controls and no lugs on the frames - also most of the road configured dianas had an airbox/sidecovers much like that on the monza. and only the race kit equipped dianas had no side boxes.

I might be a little confused about the difference between a mark 3 and a diana, I thought they were essentially the same thing and that the only dianas with with no battery and the "energy transfer ignition" had an accessory race kit installed.

Can someone help clear that up for me? Thanks

Bevel bob
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Location: Bromley Kent UK.

Re: Mach1 engine stamp

Postby Bevel bob » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:48 pm

European Mark 3 Narrow case bikes are fitted with Batteries ,toolboxes etc just like the Mach 1 that they replaced .Red and silver paint also. I have one. Made around 66/67 but sold as a 69! ,this caused some confusion with suppliers so I now say its a 66. I think this is what you have. If it looks like a Duck and quacks like a Duck, Its a Mark3!!. Mind you if I had a Mach1 engine in a mark3 frame, I would consider it a Mach1 :D

double diamond
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Mach1 engine stamp

Postby double diamond » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:20 pm

USA market Mark 3’s had the same frame as ROW Mach 1’s. Bungs attached near the swingarm pivot for the factory rearset controls which required use of the curved kickstarter to clear the rearset footpeg and brake lever. There were also brackets on the left side of the frame for the brake light switch and brake cable stop that worked in conjunction with the rearset brake lever. These models also had the triangle tool boxes used on the Mach 1. Although the Mark 3 frame had accommodations for rearsets, they were typically delivered with standard footpegs/shift lever/brake pedal, accommodation for which were also attached to the frame. American customers for the most part didn’t appreciate the clipon/rearset riding position, so rearsets on a Mark 3 are pretty rare. Dirt racing was more prevalent in the USA so the rearsets and clip-ons were not appropriate for bikes that were put into race duty on dirt. The USA Diana Mk III was a very different model. The frame had no accommodations for rearsets, tool boxes, horn or regulator/rectifier. The energy transfer ignition was not an accessory kit; this system was standard on Diana Mk III and Mark 3. The first Dianas brought into the US were essentially Monzas with different sheet metal, seat and clipon handlebars. These had battery.coil ignition. Perhaps this is what you’re thinking of as a “Diana”, which is precisely what they were. Diana Mk III: different. Sportier tuning, marginal street equipment, energy transfer ignition, included the race kit, etc., etc.

Matt


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