Introduction and question about Diana Sprocket Flange (Carrier)

[Rob5000]

Hello,

Brand new to the forum and thought I'd introduce myself.

Out of Colorado, and been tinkering with old bikes for about 10 years now. Mostly Kawi big 4s from the 70s though a little British and other old Japanese, too.

A couple of years ago I was lucky enough to stumble across a '62 Diana being sold locally. Very rough machine, which had been sitting in a barn for some time, and looked like it was used as a farm bike before that, as it had a knobby on the back and home-made bash plate under the engine. It also had what what was left of what I think was the original front tire, and a block of ice in the cylinder!

The bike has been living in my living room every since as I worked on other projects, but it's time to start getting this project going, and that means parts collecting.

Though the bike was fairly complete, one part that is missing is the sprocket carrier, or "cushion drive flange" according to the parts book.

So question: were there a lot of differences in these over the years? I found these two on Fleabay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Italia ... t~&vxp=mtr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Italia ... vP&vxp=mtr

While similar, they seem to have some subtle differences, and I am concerned as neither seems to have what appears to be a "collar" around the axle. (please see attached image).

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Robert

PS - Attached a couple of pics from the first night I brought it home. Definately a project! Plan on frame up resto on this one.

[Rick]

Robert,
Blue Dianas are rare, you're lucky to have one.
Both of the sprocket carriers you linked to appear to be intact to me- not very good photos, but the collar you're concerned about looks to be OK in both of the parts. Your 1962 Diana probably came with the sprocket carrier that didn't have the tapered ribs on the sprocket side- the one in the 2nd
eBay listing- it would match the right side front brake plate that doesn't have the fake air scoop, like yours.
Those sprocket carriers aren't worth much, in an Ebay auction they would probably sell for $15.00 to $20.00, but the $34.00 isn't outrageous for a part that you need. Both of those carriers look to be in poor shape- I'd wonder about the bearing fitting like it should- the carriers seem to show up on Ebay fairly often.
But, that sprocket carrier isn't going to account for much of the cost of restoring that bike- they can be an expensive hobby.
Good luck,
Rick

[Rob5000]

Robert,
Blue Dianas are rare, you're lucky to have one.
Both of the sprocket carriers you linked to appear to be intact to me- not very good photos, but the collar you're concerned about looks to be OK in both of the parts. Your 1962 Diana probably came with the sprocket carrier that didn't have the tapered ribs on the sprocket side- the one in the 2nd
eBay listing- it would match the right side front brake plate that doesn't have the fake air scoop, like yours.
Those sprocket carriers aren't worth much, in an Ebay auction they would probably sell for $15.00 to $20.00, but the $34.00 isn't outrageous for a part that you need. Both of those carriers look to be in poor shape- I'd wonder about the bearing fitting like it should- the carriers seem to show up on Ebay fairly often.
But, that sprocket carrier isn't going to account for much of the cost of restoring that bike- they can be an expensive hobby.
Good luck,
Rick

Many thanks for the reply, Rick.

My biggest concern was fitment, as I was having a hard time nailing down if the overall dimensions were the same across the various 250s.

Just finishing up a resto on a '66 Suzuki T20 and that one was a devil for parts compatibility. Being the first in the line of "proper" bikes from Suzuki, many subtle changes were made from say the T20 to the T250, and even within the T20 run. Despite being Japanese, finding the parts for that machine proved very challenging at times, (and as often as not, quiet expensive). There were a number of bits that required setting up a standing search on Ebay and just waiting for a bite, (and a few that arrived and were unusable).

I'm fully expecting for parts for the Diana to be quite expensive as well, given that they will be Italian, old and sought after. Happily, I'm only into the bike $500 at this stage, ($400 for the bike and another $100 for a pair of shouldered alloy Akronts I found at a swap meet) so a good start. I'm guessing another $3-4k in bits, before this thing is back on the road, and that number based on patience and some solid bird-dogging for best price.

I had been thinking of doing a period-correct race machine, but reconsidering as I've been reconsidering as '62 is first year of production (please correct me if I am wrong), so seems like it may be more appropriate to go for an OEM style restoration.

Any thoughts on this? Would I be destroying the value of the machine by not going strict original? Would even putting the shouldered rims on be ill-advised?

Again, thanks for the reply.

Robert

[Ducadini]

There is also another carrier, fitted with two bearings to cope with the exuberant power of the 450.
Don't know if they are interchangeable with the single bearing one.

ciao
ducadini

[Eldert]

Hi Robert

you have the early Amadoro hubs with more fins in the middle of the hub

later Ducati changed to GriMeCa hubs

the botton sprocket carrier without the ribs is correct for the Amadoro hub .

Eldert

[Rob5000]

There is also another carrier, fitted with two bearings to cope with the exuberant power of the 450.
Don't know if they are interchangeable with the single bearing one.

ciao
ducadini

Many thanks, for the reply. All great info.

[Rob5000]

Hi Robert

you have the early Amadoro hubs with more fins in the middle of the hub

later Ducati changed to GriMeCa hubs

the botton sprocket carrier without the ribs is correct for the Amadoro hub .

Eldert

Great info. Thank you!

[double diamond]

The Diana was basically a Monza with different tin and the clip-on/smooth top clamp arrangement. Yours obviously doesn’t have the clip-ons but this was typical of USA market bikes. Mechanically it’s a Monza so many of the parts you might need will be available. Others, such as the Aprilia horn, will be very challenging to find. The blue Dianas first appeared in 1961but were extremely rare (I’ve heard import numbers of 11 in 1961) so yours is indeed worth a restoration. Berliner actually didn’t import them for long, maybe 2-3 years until they were superseded by the Diana Mark III. I’ve seen these early Dianas with M. Baruzzo rims which are singular to the bevel single sport models. Some have butted spokes as well. It appears your rims are rusty and may not be salvageable but if they can be re-chromed it adds considerably to the intrigue of this model. You should have the early 4-speed engine with “DM250” stamped on the right engine case in front of the cylinder. I would expect an engine number in the 81XXX range, maybe 82XXX. What is the number on your cases? Does it correspond with the number on the foil tag on the frame steering head (which appears to be intact)? Tony Leone, a member of this group, has a website describing his restoration of an early Diana with a great deal of detail on the model. You’ll be interested in the details on the frame, wheels, tank, seat, etc. See coolitalianbikes.com

Matt

[Rob5000]

The Diana was basically a Monza with different tin and the clip-on/smooth top clamp arrangement. Yours obviously doesn’t have the clip-ons but this was typical of USA market bikes. Mechanically it’s a Monza so many of the parts you might need will be available. Others, such as the Aprilia horn, will be very challenging to find. The blue Dianas first appeared in 1961but were extremely rare (I’ve heard import numbers of 11 in 1961) so yours is indeed worth a restoration. Berliner actually didn’t import them for long, maybe 2-3 years until they were superseded by the Diana Mark III. I’ve seen these early Dianas with M. Baruzzo rims which are singular to the bevel single sport models. Some have butted spokes as well. It appears your rims are rusty and may not be salvageable but if they can be re-chromed it adds considerably to the intrigue of this model. You should have the early 4-speed engine with “DM250” stamped on the right engine case in front of the cylinder. I would expect an engine number in the 81XXX range, maybe 82XXX. What is the number on your cases? Does it correspond with the number on the foil tag on the frame steering head (which appears to be intact)? Tony Leone, a member of this group, has a website describing his restoration of an early Diana with a great deal of detail on the model. You’ll be interested in the details on the frame, wheels, tank, seat, etc. See coolitalianbikes.com

Matt

Thanks for the great info.

It does indeed have "DM250" stamped on the right case half.

Numbers stamped on the tag, (still visible...barely) do match each other and the engine cases.

Frame: 800619
Engine: 800619

It's also marked as a "1962"

You are correct that the rims are in rough shape, especially the rear where the corrosion actually goes all the way through around the valve stem. Can only imagine what the inside of the rim looks like!

And right again on the M. Baruzzo rims. Stamped "M. Baruzzo Torino". Spokes are rusty and double-butted.

Thanks again for the info and will see about digging up Mr Leone's website, as I can imagine that will be an invaluable resource throughout the process.

Robert

[double diamond]

Robert,

The engine number should be only 5 digits. Maybe you got an extra "0" in there? At any rate, if it's 80619, that's a very early engine number. Curious that the full year number is stamped. Usually the last digit of the year was left for the dealer to stamp, which they usually didn't do. So the foil tags would show "196" as the year.

Harry's Motorcycles in Denver was a well established dealership when they took on the Ducati line. They must have been successful with Ducati, seems like many bevel singles show up in the area. Unfortunately, Harry's closed several years ago when the neighborhood where the shop was located gentrified. Don't feel too bad, the parts you need were long gone by then.

Additional pictures before you start to disassemble would be welcome!

Matt