Wiring my Duc (from welcome thread)

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mongo
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:51 am

Wiring my Duc (from welcome thread)

Postby mongo » Thu May 20, 2010 12:13 am

Here's the way my 250 is wired, sorry for the lousy diagram, I'm a pencil and paper person more that graphics program....

Image

The Yellow wire form the engine goes to the positive terminal on the coil, and a wire goes from there to the points. Odd seeing the points actually grounding out the voltage from the magneto.

The Red wire runs the lights, and the white wire runs the brakelight only.

Full lamp brightness comes in around 4000 rpm.

DewCatTea-Bob
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Near SE side of Lake Michigan

Re: Wiring my Mk3 (from welcome thread)

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Fri May 21, 2010 11:04 am

" Here's the way my 250 is wired, sorry for the lousy diagram, "

____ Thanks for the added diagram, I think it's quite nice actually !
Only error with it is that it shows the brake-light switch wire-scheme, incorrectly ! ...
THAT would be correct as depicted if intended for any of the battery-powered DUKE-models, as they use a standard-type brake-switch !
However the narrow-case Mark-3 (& Motocross) models use a very unusual brake-switch ! _ When it's activated (by pressing the brake-pedal), it OPENS it's circuit (instead of closing it) !!
Thus the power-juice from the WHITE wire-lead is then diverted from ground to the brake-light ! - (As indicated by the depiction [in below diagram], showing the internal-contacts of the switch as DISconnected.)
Conversely, when that Mk3 type switch is in it's normal-position -(brake-pedal UP), then it's power-juice is shorted (through it's normally closed-circuit) to the frame, (via it's connected short/black ground-wire) !!
__ The MODIFIED-diagram (which I've added below), shows the corrected brake-light wiring-scheme for this Mk3-type brake-switch ! _ (This is an important difference from the Mk3 wide-case version !)
(If anyone were to wire-up a std.brake-switch as depicted in the UNmodified -(previous/above posted) wiring-diagram, then they would find that there'd be no ignition without the brake-pedal being depressed enough to activate the switch.)


" The Yellow wire form the engine goes to the positive terminal on the coil, "

____ If you actually have a '+' symbol on your ign.coil, then it's not stock. _ As instead, the original ign.coils have their primary-terminals marked with '1' & '15' !
Your narrow-case Mk3 ought to have had the ign.coil with the GREEN-label, (as opposed to the RED-label).


" and a wire goes from there to the points. Odd seeing the points actually grounding out the voltage from the magneto. "

____ That's correct! _ As when the point's open, the power-juice (from the ALTERNATOR) is then diverted through the ign.coil !


" The Red wire runs the lights, and the white wire runs the brakelight only. "

____ That's correct concerning the RED-wire ! _ But the WHITE-wire is actually in circuit with the YELLOW-wire, (within the alt.winding intended for the ignition & brake-light) !
__ Your n-c Mk3 has the usual toggle-switch located on the taillight-bracket,
correct?


____ It's always good to get all of the above points confirmed & clarified !! _ So it was useful that you did not get everything exactly correct ! _ Thus giving me another opportunity to straighten-out the above common misconceptions, so that this post can alert OTHERS, (just as I intend most all of my posts to do) !
__ And THANKyou very much for confirming my old memory of which of the three colors go to which loads !
Now we all can be more sure of these facts which many workshop-manuals leave us in the dark about.


" Full lamp brightness comes in around 4000 rpm. "

____ Thanks for that info ! _ That's about right for the models which had the '40-watt' set-up, (using a 25/25-watt bulb).
However, I was hoping you'd give your opinion on how low the RPM can go & yet still have the head-light be bright enough to be of any worth-while use for night-riding.


Thankful-Cheers,
-Bob
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PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

mongo
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:51 am

Re: Wiring my Duc (from welcome thread)

Postby mongo » Fri May 21, 2010 11:18 am

Haven't yet tried night riding, but offhand IO'd say the headlight is useless below 3000 rpm.


The coil has the green label, I couldn't make out the markings on yhe terminals so I went off an assumption based on other bike coils.
Didn't see any switch on the taillight bracket, but IIRC the taillight was replaced back in the 70's with a trailer light. Brakelight switch is down behind the rear brake pedal.

DewCatTea-Bob
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Near SE side of Lake Michigan

Re: Wiring my Duc (from welcome thread)

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Mon May 24, 2010 1:11 pm

" Brakelight switch is down behind the rear brake pedal. "

____ That's just as stock, and the same as all stock n-c models.


" Haven't yet tried night riding, but offhand IO'd say the headlight is useless below 3000 rpm. "

____ It would be nice if all of us who have a narrow-case Mk3 or Motocross model (which use the 40-watt alt), would give their opinion on how high the RPM has to be in order for the headlight to make sufficient light after dark, (which can be judged without actually riding).
____ That the head-light on these models -(the ones with the '40-watt' set-up) are so dim at under 3000-RPM and yet quickly brightens at quite a considerable rate as revs climb toward 4000-RPM and then get only slightly brighter (at a very reduced rate) as the revs climb toward 8000-rpm, has to do with more than just the fact that the alternator makes more power as it spins faster ! ...
Because the load (on the alternator) itself also changes in a reverse manor as the light gets brighter ! _ This is because the wire-filament in the old standard type light-bulb is almost like a short-circuit when it's cold, and likewise, a cooler filament has less resistance than when it's hotter ! _ As a light-filament gets warmed-up from passing electrical-current, it's resistance then increases and there's thus less load on the alternator, (as there's less draw on it's output by the hotter filament) ! _ Which in turn lets the alternator's increasing-power build-up more voltage, (at an even faster rate) than there would otherwise be if the filament's resistance stayed the same as when cold !
So, as the filament warms-up & gets hotter, it's resistance builds-up more & more and thus it gets relatively easier & easier for the alternator to run the light !
And this extra circumstance would of course still be the same situation even if the alternator's output didn't get stronger as it's revs climb !
__ Now while that included effect contributes to the lights being dim at lower RPM (when the alt doesn't make enough power to substantially heat-up the filament fully), with such heated-filament type light-bulbs,, another (new) type of light-source is completely devoid of that extra disadvantage! ...
The newer type 'LED' lights don't need to heat-up in order to then consume less power, (compared to filament-type lights) LEDs instantly consume all the power that they can as soon as proper power is applied to them. _ And on top of that, not only do they not draw & waste extra power before making full light-output, the new LED-type lights don't even consume anywhere near the same amount of power that a fully lit filament-light does... Not even close! _ I understand that a model of LED light-bulb that makes enough light to be useful as a head-light, still draws less power than a filament-type taillight-bulb !
__ So I'm thinking that these new LED-type lights could be very useful for those DUKE-models which use varying AC-power for running their head-light.
Now for any others of us who already realize that not only are LED-lights meant to work with DC and that, (unlike filament-type lights), they also NEED to be connected-up with respect to proper polarity,, ya may wonder how these LED-bulbs could possibly work with 'AC' type power (as used by n-c SCR & Mk3-models)!? ...
Well I'm thinking that ya could use two such bulbs, wired-up either in series (butt to butt), or parallel (in a '69' arrangement), to get full use of the AC type power made by these DUKE-models.
__ Unfortunately, while I'm sure that LED-lights can handle LESS voltage than they're rated for, I don't know how they would cope with much higher voltages than they're meant to work with. _ And since LEDs don't pass much current/amperage at all, the alternator's output-voltage would build very much faster, and thus certainly expose the LEDs to excessive voltage.
So I suppose a voltage-regulator would be needed. _ But guess what!? ... A filament-type bulb, (perhaps wired in series, or parallel) could do that job ! _ So instead of using a LED light in-place of the old std.bulb, ya could just ADD a LED-light to your head-light. _ That would be pretty-much like getting FREE additional lighting !
____ Does anyone else care to try using LED-type lights for their DUKE headlight? _ If so, then check-out the pic I've added (below) of a possible candidate for the job. _ Here follows a link to where I got that pic.....
http://www.sourcingmap.com/white-smd-le ... 42018.html


DUKE-Cheers,
-Bob
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

Thevin
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:58 pm

Re: Wiring my Duc (from welcome thread)

Postby Thevin » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:00 am

Bob where and how much for these LED's,,

DewCatTea-Bob
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Near SE side of Lake Michigan

Re: Wiring my Duc (from welcome thread)

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:26 am

" where and how much for these LED's, "

____ It seems that you must have missed my original post concerning such LEDs, (in another thread).
I've only bothered to find just one web-site for such as these type of LED "fog" lights,
so no doubt you could very well find others with different LED-bulbs at possibly lower prices.
__ Here follows a link to the w.site I found, (this one has a really extensive selection to ponder, [if ya can find them all]!).....

http://www.sourcingmap.com/white-led-fo ... 58882.html


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob


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