Hi,
I need help trying ti Identify my Ducati 250. It was advertised as a 1969 Monza narrow case, but its clearly a wide case.
Engine # 104129
Frame# DM250*97732*
Can anyone help me identify the year and model?
250 Monza identification
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Totally Pumped
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250 Monza identification
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DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: 250 Monza identification
____ Welcome as our newest member !
[quote= Totally Pumped ...
" Can anyone help me identify the year and model? "
____ What country did you find it in, Canada ?
I've never seen a WideCase Monza-model in-person here within in the U.S., so I'm not personally familiar with any specific model-year detail changes that could clue-in the exact model-year from any other year between 1967 & 1971,, but in your pix, I see no reason to doubt that it's possibly indeed a 1969 w-c.Monza model. ...
__ The mounted carb doesn't look to be stock however !
What model is it exactly, Amal ? _ How about a close-up picture of it ?
Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
[quote= Totally Pumped ...
" Can anyone help me identify the year and model? "
____ What country did you find it in, Canada ?
I've never seen a WideCase Monza-model in-person here within in the U.S., so I'm not personally familiar with any specific model-year detail changes that could clue-in the exact model-year from any other year between 1967 & 1971,, but in your pix, I see no reason to doubt that it's possibly indeed a 1969 w-c.Monza model. ...
__ The mounted carb doesn't look to be stock however !
What model is it exactly, Amal ? _ How about a close-up picture of it ?
Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob
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Ventodue
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Re: 250 Monza identification
Welcome Totally Pumped,
That's a very smart-looking motorcycle, I must say
.
According to Ian Falloon, the wide-case 250 Monza (and it's 350cc partner, the Sebring) appeared for just one year, 1968. He comments:
" ... the wide-case 250 Monza and 350 Sebring looked virtually identical (to their narrow-case versions). It took a sharp eye to notice the new side cover toolboxes and rear frame section. The Monza and the Sebring retained the earlier fork and shock absorbers, painted to match the other cycle parts, and angular Aprilia headlight with speedometer incorported in the shell. U.S. versions featured a sealed beam headlight. The fenders were also the earlier angular type. etc etc." *
He adds:
"These two models seemed to have been created to use up a supply of spart parts, and they only lasted for one year."
HTH
Craig
* Falloon, Standard Catalog of Ducati Motorcycles, page 74 with a black & white photo. Colour photo on page 73.
That's a very smart-looking motorcycle, I must say
.According to Ian Falloon, the wide-case 250 Monza (and it's 350cc partner, the Sebring) appeared for just one year, 1968. He comments:
" ... the wide-case 250 Monza and 350 Sebring looked virtually identical (to their narrow-case versions). It took a sharp eye to notice the new side cover toolboxes and rear frame section. The Monza and the Sebring retained the earlier fork and shock absorbers, painted to match the other cycle parts, and angular Aprilia headlight with speedometer incorported in the shell. U.S. versions featured a sealed beam headlight. The fenders were also the earlier angular type. etc etc." *
He adds:
"These two models seemed to have been created to use up a supply of spart parts, and they only lasted for one year."
HTH
Craig
* Falloon, Standard Catalog of Ducati Motorcycles, page 74 with a black & white photo. Colour photo on page 73.
Last edited by Ventodue on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ventodue
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- Location: Montpellier, France
Re: 250 Monza identification
DewCatTea-Bob wrote: <snip> The mounted carb doesn't look to be stock however ! What model is it exactly, Amal ?
Ian Falloon says it should have been a Dell'Orto SS(1?), Bob.
Other details he provides include: initially 27mm crankpin then 30mm; screw-type valve clearance adjusters; and "smaller" valves (smaller than what? I think he means smaller than the n-c versions).
Ciao
Craig
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DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: 250 Monza identification
____ While I agree that the stated motor-number is consistent with being made in 1968, I really can't agree that 1968 was the only year that w-c.Monza/Sebring-models were made available ! _ As I'm sure a saw an ad in a 1970 cycle-mag for such models.
[quote= Ventodue ...
" Ian Falloon says it should have been a Dell'Orto SS(1?), "
____ Of that claim, I'm even more certain that Mr.F is wrong,, as I'm positive that the 1968 w-c.versions still employed the same 24mm-Del.carb as the n-c.versions did !
The 1970-model/versions however, rather had the VHB/square-slide Del.carb-models though.
" Other details he provides include: initially 27mm crankpin then 30mm; "
____ This confirms that the w-c.Monza/Sebring-models were made for more years than just "1968",, as I believe the 30mm.crank-pins finally became universally employed in all OHC.models by late '69, (after they had become deemed necessary for the 450-crank).
" and "smaller" valves (smaller than what? I think he means smaller than the n-c versions). "
____ No, they were actually the same 36/33mm valves sizes ! ...
What has happened to've occurred, is the (rather common) result of insufficient wording written by the author,, which unfortunately leaves multiple interpretations by the reader ! _ And you, Craig,, just went-with the first interpreted-thought which happened to occur to you. ...
__ What the author had more-likely meant by the word "smaller", probably wasn't really intended as an 'adjective', (as is normally expected of the word 'smaller'),, but apparently rather as a 'noun'. _ And the word 'smaller' used as a noun is rather a slang-term instead of 'proper'.
But us Dukers-ourselves have come to've established the 36/33mm.valve-set as the 'smaller-valves' (as opposed to the 40/36mm-v.set that's rather known-as the 'larger-valves') ! _ So the two distinct sets of valves have come to be separately referred-to as the 'smaller' or the 'larger' valves, (amongst the likes of ourselves, at-least),, thus those two normally-adjective words have rather become as 'names' -(nouns), or a 'term' for us anyway.
So if the author's wording-choice had been thoughtful enough to have made it clear that he was rather using the word "smaller" as a noun, then you no-doubt would've properly interpreted exactly what he had actually meant by that term.
____ Another parts-difference that the w-c.Monza/Sebring-versions employ, is a different camshaft, (although still referred-to as the 'Violet' color-coded cam-model) !
I have the associated factory-specs for the valve-timing & lift figures, if anyone cares to have me list them.
Dukaddy-Dukes,
-Bob
[quote= Ventodue ...
" Ian Falloon says it should have been a Dell'Orto SS(1?), "
____ Of that claim, I'm even more certain that Mr.F is wrong,, as I'm positive that the 1968 w-c.versions still employed the same 24mm-Del.carb as the n-c.versions did !
The 1970-model/versions however, rather had the VHB/square-slide Del.carb-models though.
" Other details he provides include: initially 27mm crankpin then 30mm; "
____ This confirms that the w-c.Monza/Sebring-models were made for more years than just "1968",, as I believe the 30mm.crank-pins finally became universally employed in all OHC.models by late '69, (after they had become deemed necessary for the 450-crank).
" and "smaller" valves (smaller than what? I think he means smaller than the n-c versions). "
____ No, they were actually the same 36/33mm valves sizes ! ...
What has happened to've occurred, is the (rather common) result of insufficient wording written by the author,, which unfortunately leaves multiple interpretations by the reader ! _ And you, Craig,, just went-with the first interpreted-thought which happened to occur to you. ...
__ What the author had more-likely meant by the word "smaller", probably wasn't really intended as an 'adjective', (as is normally expected of the word 'smaller'),, but apparently rather as a 'noun'. _ And the word 'smaller' used as a noun is rather a slang-term instead of 'proper'.
But us Dukers-ourselves have come to've established the 36/33mm.valve-set as the 'smaller-valves' (as opposed to the 40/36mm-v.set that's rather known-as the 'larger-valves') ! _ So the two distinct sets of valves have come to be separately referred-to as the 'smaller' or the 'larger' valves, (amongst the likes of ourselves, at-least),, thus those two normally-adjective words have rather become as 'names' -(nouns), or a 'term' for us anyway.
So if the author's wording-choice had been thoughtful enough to have made it clear that he was rather using the word "smaller" as a noun, then you no-doubt would've properly interpreted exactly what he had actually meant by that term.
____ Another parts-difference that the w-c.Monza/Sebring-versions employ, is a different camshaft, (although still referred-to as the 'Violet' color-coded cam-model) !
I have the associated factory-specs for the valve-timing & lift figures, if anyone cares to have me list them.
Dukaddy-Dukes,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob
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Jon Pegler
- Posts: 463
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Re: 250 Monza identification
The Ducati parts book states that the 250 Monza widecase was only produced in 1968, as Ian Falloon states.
I think the frame number 97732 might indicate a late 1968 machine as it's about 1000 numbers higher than a couple of other 1968 bikes I know of, both of which were originally registered in July 1968.
However, there was a discussion on this site a few months back that threw up a few anomalies with early widecase frame numbers, so late 1968 may be a good guess, with registration possibly not being until 1969.
As Bob says, both the widecase Monza and the widecase Sebring was fitted with a Dellorto UBF24 carburettor rather than the SSI .
This is also confirmed in the Ducati parts book.
Jon
I think the frame number 97732 might indicate a late 1968 machine as it's about 1000 numbers higher than a couple of other 1968 bikes I know of, both of which were originally registered in July 1968.
However, there was a discussion on this site a few months back that threw up a few anomalies with early widecase frame numbers, so late 1968 may be a good guess, with registration possibly not being until 1969.
As Bob says, both the widecase Monza and the widecase Sebring was fitted with a Dellorto UBF24 carburettor rather than the SSI .
This is also confirmed in the Ducati parts book.
Jon
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Nick
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- Location: Paradise
Re: 250 Monza identification
That's an Amal Monobloc on there (the carb that preceded the Amal concentric). They match closely with the stock bolt holes (I have one as a spare for my 250's).
Beautiful bike!
Beautiful bike!
Put a Mikuni on it!
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Totally Pumped
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:41 am
Re: 250 Monza identification
Thank You all for your help, I am definitely going to find this forum of great value!
I live in Australia where the bike has just been imported from Florida USA, and I have purchased it from the importer, note I still have not got the bike home yet, but have taken allot of photos. The first 2 photos were taken by the Florida owner and he advertised the bike on ebay where the Australian purchaser got it.
My plan is to restore the bike to as close to original as possible for my wife to ride, maybe update to electronic ignition though!
The carby is an Amal which was put on by the previous owner. I will have to try and retrieve the original carby.
The history of the bike as I can assume from the attached photo's is: Originally purchased in Italy, as per sticker on the tail light. Then imported into the US, as per the 1974 Pennsylvania registration sticker. Also speedo is KM/Hr.
I live in Australia where the bike has just been imported from Florida USA, and I have purchased it from the importer, note I still have not got the bike home yet, but have taken allot of photos. The first 2 photos were taken by the Florida owner and he advertised the bike on ebay where the Australian purchaser got it.
My plan is to restore the bike to as close to original as possible for my wife to ride, maybe update to electronic ignition though!
The carby is an Amal which was put on by the previous owner. I will have to try and retrieve the original carby.
The history of the bike as I can assume from the attached photo's is: Originally purchased in Italy, as per sticker on the tail light. Then imported into the US, as per the 1974 Pennsylvania registration sticker. Also speedo is KM/Hr.
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Totally Pumped
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Re: 250 Monza identification
[quote="DewCatTea-Bob"]____ While I agree that the stated motor-number is consistent with being made in 1968, I really can't agree that 1968 was the only year that w-c.Monza.Sebrings were made available ! _ As I'm sure a saw an ad in a 1970 cycle-mag for such models.
I also found on Google that "Motorcycle Mechanics" September 1969 edition did a road test on the Ducati 250 Monza & Mark3. I found a used copy on ebay, so will have a look.
I also found on Google that "Motorcycle Mechanics" September 1969 edition did a road test on the Ducati 250 Monza & Mark3. I found a used copy on ebay, so will have a look.
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DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: 250 Monza identification
[quote= Totally Pumped ...
" I also found
that "Motorcycle Mechanics" September 1969 edition did a road test on the Ducati 250 Monza & Mark3. "
____ I've never seen that mag.report,, as even-though I subscribed to all of the top-5 U.S.American cycle-mags until the '90s, I believe that MM.mag is rather an English-publicated cycle/bike-mag.
__ The Mark-3 may have a 29mm-Del.VHB, as it was sometime that same year that the 29mm-Del.SSI-carb.model was replaced on that Duke-model,, however it wasn't before 1970 that the w-c.Monza also began employing (the small-body version of) that 'square-slide' type carb.model.
" I found a used copy on ebay, so will have a look. "
____ Could you please post a link to that eBay-listing ?
And when you receive your MM.mag, could you post a picture of it opened to the report-article pages and-also it's front-cover as well ?
Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
" I also found
that "Motorcycle Mechanics" September 1969 edition did a road test on the Ducati 250 Monza & Mark3. "
____ I've never seen that mag.report,, as even-though I subscribed to all of the top-5 U.S.American cycle-mags until the '90s, I believe that MM.mag is rather an English-publicated cycle/bike-mag.
__ The Mark-3 may have a 29mm-Del.VHB, as it was sometime that same year that the 29mm-Del.SSI-carb.model was replaced on that Duke-model,, however it wasn't before 1970 that the w-c.Monza also began employing (the small-body version of) that 'square-slide' type carb.model.
" I found a used copy on ebay, so will have a look. "
____ Could you please post a link to that eBay-listing ?
And when you receive your MM.mag, could you post a picture of it opened to the report-article pages and-also it's front-cover as well ?
Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob
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