Bring back the midrange power.

Ducati single cylinder motorcycle questions and discussions, all models. Ducati single cylinder motorcycle-related content only! Email subscription available.
Moderator: Morpheus

Moderator: ajleone

LaceyDucati
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:30 pm
Location: Wales UK
Contact:

Re: Bring back the midrange power.

Postby LaceyDucati » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:15 pm

Bob,

Devcon or JB weld will stick in an inlet port, if keyed into the surface correctly even right up to the seat. I've got race heads modified back in the early 90's still running fine. Don't try it in the exhaust, it won't work! As to the benefit in a road engine if you are down tuning............

Mind you, i'm with Eldert can't beat a 350 for midrange, if that's what you want. Much nicer to ride in the real world, the Machi 1 was meant for young 9 stone rebels :-)

Regards Nigel

Bevel bob
Posts: 1056
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:01 am
Location: Bromley Kent UK.

Re: Bring back the midrange power.

Postby Bevel bob » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:29 am

Eldert, DctBOb and now Nigel, I am honoured!, with such a pool of experts you would think i would be well sorted. You can lead a horse to water --But we Duck fanciers are a fickle bunch.I have struggled with the little red beast for years and am not ready to admit defeat yet.So i will absorb the wisdom and still go my own sweet (likely wrong!) way.Not going to hit 9 stone again Nigel,but my boys say i'm still a hooligan, and fight to keep up with me.Don't fancy mongrelizing my Mark 3 with a Monza head , Interesting that you (bob) think that lower radius follower would reduce the duration, I was thinking the opposite( wrong again!).Mixing up lower and smaller.I could probably benefit from a bit more lift as the F1 250 cam sacrificed lift for duration.

DewCatTea-Bob
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Near SE side of Lake Michigan

Re: Bring back the midrange power.

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:59 pm

[quote= Bevel bob ...
" Don't fancy mongrelizing my Mark 3 with a Monza head , "

____ Your fairly-stubborn mind-set about that is naturally understandable but,, the Monza-head has the type of in.port which you logically realize is better for desirable higher flow-velocity over the entire RPM.range, (aside-from max.volume at top-RPM, as your present head's in.port provides), and also has the additional/full-support for the valve-guide as you prefer !
__ You do indeed have a very-reasonable goal, so why-not go the route which best attains it (instead of only accepting similar but slighter-steps which are certainly less-likely to result with any noteworthy & worthwhile power-improvement in the desired rev.range direction) ?
Don't forget that the 'Diana 250' employed the very-same cyl.head & Violet-camshaft, (and well responded to the simple cam.substitution with the hop-up/Red-cam) !
__ Of-course if you were to rather swap for a Scrambler-head (with it's straight-through 28.5mm in.port), it would be a mere-step towards the desired direction,, but it's my good opinion that such an insignificant step would-not be substantial enough to cause any noteworthy difference that would make your endeavor all worthwhile.



" Interesting that you (bob) think that lower radius follower would reduce the duration,
I was thinking the opposite "

____ At times it clearly helps to properly conceive seemingly complex conceptions when ya grossly exaggerate their opposing view-points.
So think-about doing-so in the case of cam-follower contact-surface areas...
__ If the follower-radius were to be so overly large that it seemed same as an inch-long virtually flat follower-surface,, then that would have the front tip-edge of the follower encountering the cam-ramp's lifting action SOONER, and likewise, the follower's trailing tip-edge would finally come-down off-from the cam-lobe LATER,, thus causing a relatively long-duration (of rocker-arm activation).
CONVERSELY,, if the follower-radius were to be so extremely reduced that it appeared same as a worn/dull pencil-tip, then virtually only-just the center of the follower-surface would later/finally (directly) encounter the cam-lobe's lift-ramp (rather a half-inch later!), and-then (also directly) ride-off the lobe completely that much earlier (rather a half-inch sooner) ! _ And-so since the center of the follower-surface is obviously not (indirectly) supplementally-assisted, (with such a dinky radius),, then the lift-duration must thusly be rather minimized !
__ So now those two EXAGGERATED view-points should well help make it clear how reducing the follower-radius would correspondingly diminish the lift-duration of any cam's valve-timing. - (See associated pic.example comparison* now top-posted below. - [* Although not quite so vastly opposedly-exaggerated as has been described !].)


" I was thinking the opposite "

____ Perhaps you were rather directly thinking-of merely the follower's curved-shape itself alone, or amount of ark-curvature or something,, rather than the supposed 'radius' of the 360-degree circle of-which the follower's ark-area is merely just a fractional section of.
I suppose that the normally associated terminology could possibly be a source of confusion concerning the follower-radius, since that common tech.term more-so refers to a dimensional-aspect that's actually outside of the follower-surface itself. - (See supporting pic.example now posted below.)
But in any case, the 'follower-radius' should-not be confused with the degree-rate/sharpness of ark-curvature, or-else such as that could explicablely lead to "thinking the opposite".



" I could probably benefit from a bit more lift as the F1 250 cam sacrificed lift for duration. "

____ I believe I've covered this with you once before this past year.
Both G&W.cams have plenty of 'lift' -(near 10 & 8.5mm), and are virtually the same in that regard ! _ And that has the in.lift 1mm higher than that of the already hot Gray/M1.cam !
So there's really been no 'sacrifice'.
__ I've found that the small differences in lift pretty-much make no notably-measurable difference in performance.
But if you think it's worth-it anyhow, have you ever yet approached Eldert about the extra-hot M1-like camshafts that he's supposed to have ordered manufactured ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob


Return to “Ducati Singles Main Discussions (& How to Join)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 291 guests