It runs!

[Ian B]

Not been working recently due to the weather so I've been putting the hours in working on the Ducati's. Got to the stage where the first one of the three should go if wired up directly and couldn't resist trying it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0H7XEq ... e=youtu.be

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Ian B ...
" should go if wired up directly "

____ So do you have a complete stock electrical-system to yet install ?


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Ian B]

[quote= Ian B ...
" should go if wired up directly "

____ So do you have a complete stock electrical-system to yet install ?


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

I've not decided yet what to do with the electrics. I like the idea of battery powered ignition for reliable starting. I've read many of you posts/replies re wiring and I'm sure I'll have questions for you Bob in the near future!

Cheers
Ian

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Ian B ...
" I've not decided yet what to do with the electrics. "

____ Does your Diana (4-speed, non Mark-III ?) have any of it's original-type external electrical-parts to go-with it ?
(I assume it likely still has it's 4-pole alternator left installed.)


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Ian B]

____ Does your Diana (4-speed, non Mark-III ?) have any of it's original-type external electrical-parts to go-with it ?
(I assume it likely still has it's 4-pole alternator left installed?

What you can see is what I have of the original bike. No bodywork except a slim sprung seat, no electrics. The alternator has three wires coming out, all be it household cable so no idea which is which!

Cheers
Ian

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Ian B ...
" The alternator has three wires coming out, "

____ Then it's more likely a Mark-III, rather than a Diana-250.
__ So next you need to check that your AAU's points-cam is indeed the type meant for the magneto-type ign.system. _ If you don't know-of the difference, then please post a picture (taken with the points-cover removed), and I'll then confirm which AAU.type you have installed.
__ I noticed that you've been test-running your rather basic Duke with a battery (assuming to power the ignition),, that would be improper with the wrong AAU.type, as the expected points-cam has way too much dwell contact-time which will lead to overheating the ign.coil !
After ten minutes of run-time, you should then find the coil fairly hot to the touch.
__ What ign.coil-model are you currently employing ?



" be it household cable so no idea which is which! "

____ You'll need an ohm-meter to check which alt.stator wire-lead is which.
The one meant to power the lights should be the only-one which has continuity to ground. _ While the remaining pair should only have continuity just to each-other and not to ground.
You'll have to determine which is which before you become ready to discuss what you wish from your eventual electrical-system.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[Ian B]

__ So next you need to check that your AAU's points-cam is indeed the type meant for the magneto-type ign.system. _ If you don't know-of the difference, then please post a picture (taken with the points-cover removed), and I'll then confirm which AAU.type you have installed.

This is the one fitted to the Diana/Daytona/MK3 and also to the Sebring.

points cam-2.jpg

What would the non auto-advance type be fitted to?

points cam-1.jpg

points cam-3.jpg

__ I noticed that you've been test-running your rather basic Duke with a battery (assuming to power the ignition),, that would be improper with the wrong AAU.type, as the expected points-cam has way too much dwell contact-time which will lead to overheating the ign.coil !
After ten minutes of run-time, you should then find the coil fairly hot to the touch.
__ What ign.coil-model are you currently employing ?

The coil is marked Ducati Electronica, Made in Italy.

____ You'll need an ohm-meter to check which alt.stator wire-lead is which.
The one meant to power the lights should be the only-one which has continuity to ground. _ While the remaining pair should only have continuity just to each-other and not to ground.
You'll have to determine which is which before you become ready to discuss what you wish from your eventual electrical-system.
Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

Currently, all three alt leads have continuity to ground. Wire 1 = 2.1 ohms. Wire 2 = 2.6 ohms. Wire 3 = 2.8 ohms

Many thanks

Ian

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Ian B ...
" This is the one fitted to the Diana/Daytona/MK3 and also to the Sebring. "

____ I'm not absolutely positive about the 'Daytona' model,, but that points-cam is correct for the Diana & Sebring models with the battery-powered ign.system, and not the Mark-III !



" What would the non auto-advance type be fitted to? "

____ That version (with the shorter duration cam-lobe), is only found within just the earliest Motocross & Mark-III models, (certainly the ones which never came with a brake-light circuit, for-sure,, and quite likely also within newer editions produced sometime into 1963 as well).
__ This type of points-cam with the longer duration dwell contact time, is as I had naturally expected along-with any 3-wire alt.stator (on a n-c.motor).



" The coil is marked Ducati Electronica, Made in Italy. "

____ I believe both Ducati ign.coil models are so marked.
The version made for battery-powered ignition should have a 'red-label', while the other with the 'green-label' is only intended just for Ducati's magneto-type ET.ignition-system.



" all three alt leads have continuity to ground. "

____ The only Ducati alt.stator that has all-three of it's wire-leads circuited to ground, is the '28-watt' model which wasn't employed on any 250-model other than the 1966-67 Scrambler !



" Wire 1 = 2.1 ohms. Wire 2 = 2.6 ohms. Wire 3 = 2.8 ohms "

____ Now this revelation is what's most disconcerting of all so-far ! _ As all of those ohm-readings are way too high !
So are you quite sure that you've taken your meter-readings correctly ?
Assuming so, then your alt.stator is-not a stock-Ducati item !
__ Please double-check (preferably with another [hopefully more accurate] ohm-meter), and confirm whether or not your above-stated ohmic-figures are actually correct, (of-which they may all be off due-to the ohm-meter not first being properly calibrated just prior to taking it's readings). _ And if they are indeed correct, then it'd certainly be enlightening to see a picture of your particular alt.stator,, as it currently seems to have been custom-modified.
On the other-hand,, if by some odd-chance your ohm-meter just happens to be miscalibrated exactly by an even +2.0-ohms (when the ohm-meter's leads are directly connected tightly to one-another), then the resulting true ohmic-firgures of 0.1; 0.6; 0.8 would just happen to be well within the three expected ohmic-ranges of a completely good '28w' alt.stator (which ought be nearer .2; .5; .9 ohms) ! _ And that's awfully coincidental to totally ignore !
__ Have you ever checked for any power-output from the three wire-leads whilst the engine is revving at idle or higher RPM ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[Ian B]

____ Now this revelation is what's most disconcerting of all so-far ! _ As all of those ohm-readings are way too high !
So are you quite sure that you've taken your meter-readings correctly ?
Assuming so, then your alt.stator is-not a stock-Ducati item !
__ Please double-check (preferably with another [hopefully more accurate] ohm-meter), and confirm whether or not your above-stated ohmic-figures are actually correct, (of-which they may all be off due-to the ohm-meter not first being properly calibrated just prior to taking it's readings). _ And if they are indeed correct, then it'd certainly be enlightening to see a picture of your particular alt.stator,, as it currently seems to have been custom-modified.
On the other-hand,, if by some odd-chance your ohm-meter just happens to be miscalibrated exactly by an even +2.0-ohms (when the ohm-meter's leads are directly connected tightly to one-another), then the resulting true ohmic-firgures of 0.1; 0.6; 0.8 would just happen to be well within the three expected ohmic-ranges of a completely good '28w' alt.stator (which ought be nearer .2; .5; .9 ohms) ! _ And that's awfully coincidental to totally ignore !
__ Have you ever checked for any power-output from the three wire-leads whilst the engine is revving at idle or higher RPM ?

Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

Rookie mistake on my part.. I didn't check the calibration of my Mickey Mouse multimeter.. If I connect the leads together I initially get 1.9-2.0 ohms so hopefully that puts my stator in the desired range. The only time I've had the engine running is for the video, so no I've not checked for any output yet. I'm currently concentrating my efforts on putting the other two engines back together so the electrics can now wait a while.
Thanks again for your efforts.

Cheers
Ian

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Ian B ...
" If I connect the leads together I initially get 1.9-2.0 ohms so hopefully that puts my stator in the desired range. "

____ Ideally, the ohm-meter should be zeroed-out just prior to measuring such low resistances, in order to get trustworthy readout-results, (as the meter's battery is most strained whilst doing such).
But if we assume that the noted difference stays consistent, then your alt.stator's three ohm-readings would then be nearer to .2; .7; & .9, which I believe is pretty-much perfect for a like-new 28w.stator. _ And the '.7' for the lighting-coil is indicative of it having never been (wrongly !) left connected-up to the ign.system (which is mostly a short-circuit). - (Lighting-coils which have been so abused, develop reduced resistance-levels down to under .4-ohm.)
__ So now it seems more certain that your Duke's alt-stator is actually the so-called '28-watt' model.
Do you have any possible explanation for that ?



" I've not checked for any output yet. "

____ Now that it seems much-less likely that your alt.stator is really odd in any way, power-output testing is not so much called-for anymore.
__ So far, I'm understanding that your project-Duke is supposed to be a 'Diana 250', of which such older models are supposed to have battery-powered ignition (which your installed AAU supports). _ Yet somehow it seems it has adopted a much newer alt.stator that's rather designed to MAG.power the ign.system.
So I'm guessing that since your alt.stator is-not original-stock and it's wire-leads are all the same color, that someone has installed a new-replacement stator without realizing that it wasn't the correct 4-pole version. _ (I've included a pic of the 'correct' alt.stator for a 'Diana 250', [not to be confused with the '40-watt' stator of a 'Diana Mark-III'].)



" so the electrics can now wait a while. "

____ While I certainly wouldn't argue that the actual physical-work of completing the wiring-system can "wait" or not, I do however think that you shouldn't put-off contemplating what kind of electrical-scheme you'll eventually come-up with for it. _ As it seems that what-all you happen to currently have, will require some sort of hybridization in order to make everything work well enough.
So you need to begin thinking about whether you wish to swap the currently installed AAU for the appropriate version and go-with the stock-type electrical-system which the 28w.power-source was originally intended to be matched-together with,, or rather try to best adapt that incorrect power-source to run with an electrical-system that's more dependent on battery-power, like the original Diana was.
__ So let me know your related inclinations, and I'll then suggest more suitable options for you to consider.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob