vin number

[asmith411]

I'm trying to locate the vin number on my 1967 or 1968 Ducati scrambler. There is no plate on the steering yoke with a vin number. I was told there also may be a number located near the engine rear motor mount. I haven't been able to locate the number there either, but it is rather dirty.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks

[Ventodue]

First off, if you're looking for a 17-character 'Vehicle Identification Number' (VIN) such as is used today, you won't find one. They didn't exist in 1967/8.

Instead, bikes sold in most markets were stamped with a) an engine number; b) a frame number. (On Ducatis, these numbers weren't the same). However, this wasn't the case in the USA. By way of explanation, I quote Tom Bailey from his book, "Ducati Singles First Person" (well worth buying, btw, if you have any interest in the singles):

"In the 1950 and 60s in the United States there was no central federal bureaucracy regulating motor vehicles. Each state operated as an independent country with regard to vehicle equipment and titling regulations. The net result was .. a major variation in how motorcycles were titled. Some states registered and titled motorcycles based on the frame number, and some on the engine number."

"To alleviate the problems (that would otherwise have been caused), the Berliners ( = Berliner Motor Corporation, the US Ducati importer) advised the factory not to stamp numbers on the frames of bikes intended for the American market. Instead, a small plate of very thin aluminum was prepared (with) a frame number identical to the engine number. Known as the "Berliner Identification Foil", it was glued to the frame headstock."

So you won't find a VIN - or a frame number ...

HTH

Craig

[asmith411]

Thanks Craig, so I guess you are saying that the registration number in the USA should be the same as the motor number which is 106828 on the engine.
The title was lost so I have to apply for a duplicate title. I am located in Pennsylvania, USA.

Thanks again,
Art Smith

[Ventodue]

Yep, that's as I understand it, Art. But hopefully one of your compatriots will come along soon to confirm/deny. If no-one does, pm DewCatTea-Bob
or Jim Franzen (JimF) or Tony (ajleone) - they'll know for sure.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= asmith411...
" Thanks Craig, so I guess you are saying that the registration number in the USA should be the same as the motor number which is 106828 on the engine. "

____ I-myself have nothing to add that counters anything Craig has stated,
however your stated motor-number seems too old to be a "1968" model ! _ Your 250 may likely be a 1967 model,, and if it's definitely a WideCase-model, then it's no older than 1967 !
__ If it's alt.stator-cable only contains just two wire-leads, then it must be a n-c.Monza (and not a Scrambler or Mark-3 model).


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

UPDATE - I was in error while writing this post, as I was then dumbly under the false-mindset that the motor-number was as-if it was 100682.

[asmith411]

Thanks for all your comments. I have since confirmed with the PA DMV that the engine number is in fact my registration number. As for the engine being narrow case or wide case, I'm pretty sure it is a wide case. The drive chain disappears well into the engine base casing, not like the narrow casing where the drive chain is clearly visible.

Art Smith

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= asmith411 ...
" As for the engine being narrow case or wide case, I'm pretty sure it is a wide case. "

____ To be definitely-sure,, if the rear motor-mount bolts are the same width-length as those of the front mounting-bolts, then it's a narrow-case model, (as the rear mounting-bolts of a wide-case model are near twice as long) !
__ If you really have a w-c.model, then it's a very early version which is rather unique & rare (compared to 1968 & newer w-c.models).


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[asmith411]

Checked the mount bolts. The rear engine mounting bolts are definitely longer than the front bolts.
I'm still not sure of the year of the bike. Tom Baily's book says that the year stamp on the front forks should indicate the fabrication year within 5 months. I haven't disassembled the front end as yet.

Thanks for your comments,
Art

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= asmith411 ...
" The rear engine mounting bolts are definitely longer than the front bolts. "

____ Then your Duke-model must be a WideCase-version which (amongst other mod.changes) should have the clutch-cable connected to an extended lever-arm that protrudes through a slot atop the motor-case, (instead of rather neatly disappearing into the case, as on n-c.versions).



" I'm still not sure of the year of the bike. "

____ Well as I thought I've already indicated, it must be a '1967' model, as that was the very-first model-year for any WideCase-model, and many 250 motor-numbers beginning with '10' were still 1966 n-c.models !
__ From my very-own experience, I've personally learned that 250w-c.models first came with motor-numbers by the 108000s-range, and those I've seen with such low w-c.250 motor-numbers were made in 1967.
Although it's not impossible that your 106800s-range motor-case might possibly have been cast in late-1966, the 'model-year' which was assigned to it was pretty-certainly '1967' !



" Tom Baily's book says that the year stamp on the front forks should indicate the fabrication year within 5 months. "

____ That's probably pretty fair to go-by, but that year-date is of when the fork-leg itself was produced, (before the construction of the Duke it was finally mated-together with),, and ya also have-to depend-on that random fork-leg having been kept within a stockpile which was always kept rotated on a timely basis and shipped to Ducati in the same order as produced. _ And-so I'd much suspect that it's quite possibly likely that some Duke-models which were produced later could've possibly been mated-together with fork-sets which were manufactured earlier, compared to some-other slightly older Duke-models which had happened to get mated-together with somewhat newer fork-sets). _ So therefore while the dates given on fork-legs can provide a fair idea of a Duke's production-year,, those dates can-not really be sternly relied upon for accurately determining the DUKEs' production-dates or their particular 'model-year' with absolute certainty, and-thusly may possibly wrongly indicate the assumed date-order of a couple of randomly compared DUKEs (which were both produced within half a year of each other).


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
DCT-Bob

[Ventodue]

If you really have a w-c.model, then it's a very early version which is rather unique & rare (compared to 1968 & newer w-c.models).

I had the same thought, Bob . There's not many of the early ones around, Art ...

Got some photos?