250 Monza not charging

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Well Peter, I'm probably not the only one who's been waiting in anticipation for your response to at-least one of my posed questions left for you within my previous-post.
For one-thing, I'm left to assume that you don't know what the amp-hour rating of your battery is,, and considering your next inquiry, I gather you're assuming that it's too small to hold-down your system's voltage-level by itself.


[quote= cooperplace ...
" I like the idea of the Zener diode. "

____ In the past, I've used zener-circuits within my-own battery-eliminator circuits, to make life easier on the light-bulbs,, but Zenor-diode voltage-regulation is rather inefficient & wasteful, (which is why I-myself don't like to make use of such [along-with a battery]).
__ If you add such a simple circuit, it will probably only come-into actually useful use just whenever you have the lights turned-off whilst the engine is revving at high-RPMs. _ So that rare actual functional-use will tend to keep slighter amounts of excess-power (supplied by the fully-active alternator) from being wasted to ground through the zener-diode, (except of-course during those rare events when the battery isn't adequately inclined to absorb it all). _ So then fuel-millage probably shouldn't end-up being sipped-away by any unnecessary extra amount.



" Do you have any specific recommendations in that area? "

____ Not really, but such stand-alone (powerful) Zener-diodes are somewhat commonly used in motorcycle applications, as found at the following links...
http://www.xxl-sale.com/goto/eJxNjkFPwz ... dSBQ%3D%3D
http://www.xxl-sale.com/goto/eJxNjkFvwj ... BfSAVYM%3D
http://www.xxl-sale.com/goto/eJxNjk1vwj ... JUDA%3D%3D
You could probably find other similar listings on eBay that you might get cheaper, but these example-types are probably more powerful than you really need, and you could no-doubt get similar z.diodes at a local electronics-shop for a lot cheaper.
__ Those examples should be hooked-up so that they become connected to the battery when the ignition-switch is turned-on.
But as simple as such an extra circuit is to add to your system,, it's just as easy, (not to mention cheaper !), to simply add an optional cut-off circuit-switch to control whether the alternator's available-power remains fully available or cut-down ! _ That-way, the alt.power is then handled rather efficiently and-thus fuel-millage can then possibly rather BENEFIT, (as electrical-power sure isn't produced absolutely free ya-know) !
____ Let me know what your latest inclination is next.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[cooperplace]

Hi Bob,

maybe just the toggle switch is the answer then. Handlebar mounted? Drilling into the headlight doesn't seem a good idea. The battery by the way is a Yuasa 5.5Ah flooded lead-acid type.

Thanks again for your excellent advice.
Peter

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= cooperplace ...
" maybe just the toggle switch is the answer then. "

____ I believe that would be the most logical way to-go. _ But while I-myself am fairly biased against the use of z.diodes to ground-out excessive power-output (rather than simply reduce power-output), I'm not one to sternly steer others away from their-own preferences.
If you had done your-own extensive search of eBay, then you ought-to have found this listing - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-Lucas-Z ... 49&vxp=mtr , and-so if you really wish to employ such on your system, then I don't think you'd ever find one any cheaper than that. _ (You'd just have-to hope it's still a working item.)
__ I always preferred the rider-option of being in control of whether or not the alternator's potential full-power is allowed to enter-into my electrical-system, and I'd keep track of when the extra power was needed or not with the use of an ammeter (as many motorcycles used-to employ), connected to the battery neg.post-circuit so as to then be able to realize which side of the breakeven-point that the battery happened to be operating in. _ Like having the pleasure of being able to be more fully in control and make your-own decision of exactly when to shift gears, I always also got similar self-satisfaction with that additional rider-option of being able to influence the charging status !
But if you're the type who'd prefer that your motorcycle's transmission were an 'automatic', then the Zener-diode employment would be the popular modus-operandi of those so like-minded.



" Handlebar mounted? "

____ If you so choose. _ But you haven't told me what all the parts you have for your electrical-system actually are.
What are you using as a light-switch,, all stock Monza switching-components (still in good working-order), or what exactly ?
There are possible means to control extra circuits without physical addition of extra independent controller-switches.



" Drilling into the headlight doesn't seem a good idea."

____ Like many others back in days-past -(decades ago), I never thought very much of it in a well-used bike ! _ But of-course now-days, actually doing such alteration of original-stock parts is more certainly a fair crying-shame ! _ So I'd no-longer ever advise doing such obvious disfiguring to any otherwise stock & uncustomized Duke !
__ Whenever I'd install an ammeter, I'd then preferably adapt it's holder-bracket to include the related toggle-switch.



" The battery by the way is a Yuasa 5.5Ah flooded lead-acid type."

____ Then I guess you must've found that the 12v.battery as was used in 1971-74 Yamaha 250/350-twins is about the best fit possible.
__ The 5.5-Amp/hour rating would indeed be too much on the small-side for a 6-volt battery to keep the system voltage-level held-down,, but for a 12v.battery, that size is borderline for being able to comfortably absorb the excess power available from the output of both* alt.stator power-windings. _ So it's probably safer (for the light-bulbs) to somehow ease charging-power on the battery (* whenever the headlight isn't powered-up).


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[cooperplace]

Bob I agree with all that. When I was 22 I would have got out the drill and happily used in on my 450 desmo or 900SS, both of which I sadly sold. I'm a lot older and hopefully wiser. The battery seemed to be the best (only!) fit for the tray that the previous owner put in there.

The 3000 listings on Ebay put me off, however you're a genius for finding that $5 unit. I'll bid on it and let you know how it goes.

Thanks
Peter.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= cooperplace ...
" The battery seemed to be the best (only!) fit for the tray "

____ After I discovered it's existence in 1973, the Yamaha battery had become my default-preference for 12-volt conversions. _ But to attain more amp-hours, I had previously found that a pair of popular-sized 6v.batteries (which were good for near 8 amp-hours) could be strapped together to still pretty-much fit the base-area of the battery-tray and occupy nearer the same total volume-space as the rather tall stock-6v.battery, and-so the extra 2 amp-hours pretty-much only took-up just the height-dimension space not taken advantage-of by the rather short Yamaha battery.
I don't recall the particular model-designation of that 6v.battery (which I think was employed in a 1969-71 Suzuki 125-enduro), but here's a link to a similar sized battery, (except it's height-dimension is near 2-inches shorter than the particular 6v.battery-model which I used-to pair-up together in series to attain the preferred 12-volts & higher amp-hour rating)... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Sonic-2-P ... 2c80cbef87 .
With a minimum battery-capacity of at-least 7 amp-hours, (that's at-least 25% greater than the Yamaha battery), the need for curtailing any excess charging-power is then effectively rendered unnecessary, (as the larger combined-battery, is a relatively greater load [which naturally consumes more charging-power] and-thus better absorbs power-juice & holds-down system-voltage).



" you're a genius for finding that $5 unit. "

____ Didn't take a genius to find it, but rather just stumbling-luck !



" I'll bid on it and let you know how it goes. "

____ Smart-bidders who really don't wish to throw-away their money, don't place any bids until the last 20-seconds of the auction (which is commonly known as 'sniper-bidding'), at which point the smartest-ones then enter a bid such-as 10.01 ! _ (I've actually beaten such an exact smart/snipe-bid with my-own bid of 10.02, entered just 2-seconds before the auction end-time ! - [Such rare & extreme bid-placement is referred-to as swat-bidding.] )



____ And now with your rather brief response-reply responded to, I next feel the need to make mention of you having once-again overlooked my questions.
So I'm still left wondering if the rest of your electrical-system parts & headlamp are still completely stock, or what !? _ So merely gathering that your headlamp is stock and assuming your wire-harness is still stock,, then since your system no-longer includes a stock regulator-unit, then it's red and brown wires which run up into the headlamp are now free to serve another function ! _ And the charging-state indicator-light which those two wires used-to feed, could now be replaced with a toggle-switch (connected to those convenient wires) !
And since there's already the existing (and now useless) lamp-hole in the headlamp-shell, you wouldn't have-to drill any new hole in it for the proposed toggle-switch !
__ So it seems you now have 3-days left to wonder which way you're going to end-up going with, (depending on whether you win that Brit.bike power-z.diode).
If you don't get such a unit with heat-sink, it doesn't much matter because your charging-system doesn't produce so much excess power that the z.diode will overheat without such elaborate cooling precautions.
The old Brit.bikes employed the mentality of producing great-gobs of maximum alt.power-output so that there'd then be at-least sufficient power-production at idle-RPM, and-then DUMP to ground (through the z.diode) all the extra overabundant excess-power produced at high-RPM ! _ (Which certainly doesn't help fuel-millage, as producing electrical-juice is no effortless task for the engine !)
And then there's also the matter of the diode-casing ground-bias being either positive or negative to address dealing with. _ But that's not a real issue which can't be solved easily enough.


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= cooperplace ...
" I'll bid on it and let you know how it goes. "

____ Well I've since noted that you've won that auction with a 'snipe-bid', (although as it turned-out, you really didn't need to have been bothered with that type of inconvenient bid, since the auction was [surprisingly] uncontested).
__ Let us know when you've received the Z.diode and when you're ready to figure-out how to connect it to your Duke.

____ I've noted that the same eBay-seller also has an ammeter listed... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-Bonnevi ... 1703982921
I'd say it's worth near 20-bucks,, and considering it's current price, someone of us here really ought-to be interested in picking-up that item.
__ In my opinion, being without an ammeter is much like being without a tachometer.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[cooperplace]

I didn't bid on the Ebay zener diode. I'll go for the toggle switch: it seems altogether a better idea.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= cooperplace ...
" I didn't bid on the Ebay zener diode. "

____ In that case, it seems that if you had,, then you would've ended-up paying more than just the 5-bucks, if the winning-bidder's snipe-bid hadn't beaten whatever you would've bid.



" I'll go for the toggle switch: it seems altogether a better idea. "

____ Indeed so, I'm content that you realize that !
__ Now how about next finally answering my question as to whether your Monza still has it's stock wiring-harness (along with the stock headlamp) ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob