[quote= machten ...
" Actually, there was one
that had a similarly shaped headlight bucket and lens and the key position at 4 o'clock and that's the silver shotgun.
it could one of these. "
____ Thanks for your posted-pic and-also thanks for your contributed-input/assistance, Kev !
__ The headlamp you've referred-to appears no-different than that of the '450Mark 3D' DESMO w-c.models of 1969 - 70 !
However it's fairly clear to ME that the headlamp in question is not-likely such as one of THOSE headlamp-models exactly. ...
I conclude-so* because (just as I recalled), the key-switch is located closer to '3:30' than to the "4:00-o'clock" position and-also noticeably placed further forward (ahead of the mounting-bolt). _ And besides that, the Ducati key-switch requires a larger hole than the rather-small hole with it's included slot which I've pointed-out.
You should be able to personally look-over your-own Mark-3D's headlamp and see that the particular location of the key-switch in w-c.headlamps is notably displaced from the rather-dislocated position of the mystery-hole within the suspect headlamp.
(* Not to mention that the 450-version of the Mk3D.headlamp doesn't include a speedo.mount/hole !)
" I can't recall what holes it had for idiot lights though, "
____ Aside from a speedo.mounting feature, the headlamp-example you've posted seems to be pretty-much the same as that which your 250Mk3D is supposed to have...
The warning-indicator in the top/center-position lights-up whenever the key-switch is turned-on,, and I believe the left-side one is the red-light for indicating high-beam activation, while I think the right-side one is a mere dummy.
__ Are you aware of any other notable differences between that SS.headlamp-example and the (stock?) headlamp on your-own 250Mark-3D ?
Dukaddy-DUKEs,
DCT-Bob
Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
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DewCatTea-Bob
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Std.type 450Mk.3D-style Headlamp-characteristics
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PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob
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machten
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Re: Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
Thanks for your posted-pic and-also thanks for your contributed-input/assistance, Kev !
I could be wrong here, Bob...I make no claim to any "expert" status...but here's what has been my understanding to date:
__ The headlamp you've referred-to appears no-different than that of the '450Mark 3D' DESMO w-c.models of 1969 - 70 !
and
You should be able to personally look-over your-own Mark-3D's headlamp and see that the particular location of the key-switch in w-c.headlamps is notably displaced from the rather-dislocated position of the mystery-hole within the suspect headlamp.
and
__ Are you aware of any other notable differences between that SS.headlamp-example and the (stock?) headlamp on your-own 250Mark-3D ?
I find the 3:30 position vs the 4:00 position a little hard to discern from the pics. The silver shotgun speedo was mounted in the headlight and came with a white faced vegia tacho separately mounted. I'm not exactly sure when the "coffin tank" M3's and M3D's transitioned to the pod mounted speedo and tacho of later years, but I've always assumed it was consistent with the change from twin filler to single filler coffin tank. (and I have read that the later coffin tank was unpopular in the US and replaced sometimes by the scrambler tank - and I have some pics that may support that)
I'm pretty sure you are correct that the headlight bucket of the SS was the same as the twin fillers of 68. The only difference on the 68 twin fillers (at least in Europe and Aus) was that the headlight rim was hooded.
Some pics below...
This is from the US 1970 M3D that supposedly came with a scrambler tank. Regardless, you can see the headlight arrangement which is stock for a 68, but odd for a 70 that should have had the pod based tacho and speedo. (A different conversation, pic just posted for the view of the headlight)
Best regards,
Kev
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DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
[quote= machten ...
" here's what has been my understanding to date: "
I couldn't see that there was a speedo-unit setting in the lamp's top-side.
But what had really led me astray, is your-own post-wording: "Actually, there was one (and only one I can think of) that had a similarly shaped headlight bucket and lens and the key position at 4 o'clock and that's the silver shotgun.", cuz since you didn't include your-own 250Mk3D, I was thusly left to assume that the SS.450 had the same plain shell (without speedo) like all other 450Mk3-models, rather than like that of your-own 250Mk.3D-model also with it's-own speedo.mount feature.
__ This (rather false) realization lead me to edit my post accordingly, as it now seems that I originally had the mix-up more correct in the first-place, (as you may've noticed if you had seen my post as it was worded at first, [before I got some sleep, and-then redid my post right-after waking-up] ).
"
____ If you study the location of the mystery-hole, you ought-to see how low it is relative to the location of the mounting-bolt - (if possibly* viewed directly-toward the bolt-head [with line-of-sight in line with it's shaft], then I'd say that small/mystery-hole is located about 7-o'clock [relative to the bolt's center-location], but-yet the real key-switch hole (in the real Ducati w-c.headlamps] is rather located about 4-o'clock [in relation to the bolt-head, {don't forget}], so I'd say that the real key-switch hole is obviously located higher AND more forward compared to the location of the mystery-hole !
(* As if ya could put your-eyeball right inside there & face it directly towards the bolt-head.)
__ And if that hole is original to that headlamp in question, then it was never original to any Ducati-model !
" The silver shotgun speedo was mounted in the headlight "
____ That seems kind-of odd to me, but then I've never seen a SS.450 in person. _ I had thought that those rare 450 models rather had a style of headlamp which was fashioned more like the (speedometer-less) headlamp-models employed by the old 750GT-models !?
" I'm not exactly sure when the "coffin tank" M3's and M3D's transitioned to the pod mounted speedo and tacho of later years, but I've always assumed it was consistent with the change from twin filler to single filler coffin tank. "
____ Of-course that particular point in time would've been a logical assumption,, however there was never ANY such 'transition', as the non-pod setup always remained the same throughout the established 250/350 model-lines which started-out without any such pod-setup.
RATHER, it was in 1969 when ONLY the 450-models came equipped with the pod-mounted setup !
" (and I have read that the later coffin tank was unpopular in the US and replaced sometimes by the scrambler tank - and I have some pics that may support that) "
____ I-myself never seen any Mark-3 models which came originally with Scr.tanks,, but I believe it's true, and I think Berliner was the ones who installed them (apparently cuz they thought it would help get their Mk3-stockpile sold easier).
" I'm pretty sure you are correct that the headlight bucket of the SS was the same as the twin fillers of 68. "
____ That's what I had first stated before, but later thought it was a mistake, (so I changed my posted-wording, [but now, I realize I shouldn't have !] ).
" The only difference on the 68 twin fillers
was that the headlight rim was hooded. "
____ It's been decades since I've seen one, but I believe that's true.
Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob
" here's what has been my understanding to date: "
____ I guess the key-word there was "appears" ...__ The headlamp you've referred-to appears no-different than that of the '450Mark 3D' DESMO w-c.models of 1969 - 70 !
I couldn't see that there was a speedo-unit setting in the lamp's top-side.
But what had really led me astray, is your-own post-wording: "Actually, there was one (and only one I can think of) that had a similarly shaped headlight bucket and lens and the key position at 4 o'clock and that's the silver shotgun.", cuz since you didn't include your-own 250Mk3D, I was thusly left to assume that the SS.450 had the same plain shell (without speedo) like all other 450Mk3-models, rather than like that of your-own 250Mk.3D-model also with it's-own speedo.mount feature.
__ This (rather false) realization lead me to edit my post accordingly, as it now seems that I originally had the mix-up more correct in the first-place, (as you may've noticed if you had seen my post as it was worded at first, [before I got some sleep, and-then redid my post right-after waking-up] ).
"
I find the 3:30 position vs the 4:00 position a little hard to discern from the pics. "__ Are you aware of any other notable differences between that SS.headlamp-example and the (stock?) headlamp on your-own 250Mark-3D ?
____ If you study the location of the mystery-hole, you ought-to see how low it is relative to the location of the mounting-bolt - (if possibly* viewed directly-toward the bolt-head [with line-of-sight in line with it's shaft], then I'd say that small/mystery-hole is located about 7-o'clock [relative to the bolt's center-location], but-yet the real key-switch hole (in the real Ducati w-c.headlamps] is rather located about 4-o'clock [in relation to the bolt-head, {don't forget}], so I'd say that the real key-switch hole is obviously located higher AND more forward compared to the location of the mystery-hole !
(* As if ya could put your-eyeball right inside there & face it directly towards the bolt-head.)
__ And if that hole is original to that headlamp in question, then it was never original to any Ducati-model !
" The silver shotgun speedo was mounted in the headlight "
____ That seems kind-of odd to me, but then I've never seen a SS.450 in person. _ I had thought that those rare 450 models rather had a style of headlamp which was fashioned more like the (speedometer-less) headlamp-models employed by the old 750GT-models !?
" I'm not exactly sure when the "coffin tank" M3's and M3D's transitioned to the pod mounted speedo and tacho of later years, but I've always assumed it was consistent with the change from twin filler to single filler coffin tank. "
____ Of-course that particular point in time would've been a logical assumption,, however there was never ANY such 'transition', as the non-pod setup always remained the same throughout the established 250/350 model-lines which started-out without any such pod-setup.
RATHER, it was in 1969 when ONLY the 450-models came equipped with the pod-mounted setup !
" (and I have read that the later coffin tank was unpopular in the US and replaced sometimes by the scrambler tank - and I have some pics that may support that) "
____ I-myself never seen any Mark-3 models which came originally with Scr.tanks,, but I believe it's true, and I think Berliner was the ones who installed them (apparently cuz they thought it would help get their Mk3-stockpile sold easier).
" I'm pretty sure you are correct that the headlight bucket of the SS was the same as the twin fillers of 68. "
____ That's what I had first stated before, but later thought it was a mistake, (so I changed my posted-wording, [but now, I realize I shouldn't have !] ).
" The only difference on the 68 twin fillers
was that the headlight rim was hooded. "
____ It's been decades since I've seen one, but I believe that's true.
Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob
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PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob
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Jon Pegler
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Re: Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
The hole at 4 o'clock is a standard fitment on some of the narrowcase Mototrans Ducati singles.
It is 13mm diameter and used for the dipswitch wires to pass through.
I have two Mototrans machines with that headlamp shell and both have the hole at 4 o'clock.
That said, I don't think Moto Chucks headlamp shell is a Spanish one as the holes in the top for light switch,ignition switch and idiot light are not the same.
Jon
It is 13mm diameter and used for the dipswitch wires to pass through.
I have two Mototrans machines with that headlamp shell and both have the hole at 4 o'clock.
That said, I don't think Moto Chucks headlamp shell is a Spanish one as the holes in the top for light switch,ignition switch and idiot light are not the same.
Jon
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Moto Chuck
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Re: Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
"You seem to be hanging on to the idea that your headlight bucket and the parts it contains is somehow original or done before it was sold at the dealer. You seem to have blinders on or something because there is clearly nothing original to do with your headlight."
I said that while it did not come from a 250 Mk3 it was clearly an aprilia unit and was mostly intact from whatever it came on.
"Gone. All the switches, warning lights, original wiring, junction blocks ect.." As Bob pointed out the 250 Mk3 NC headlight bucket was nearly empty with no junction blocks, switches and only one indicator light for the high beam. This is an American Magneto bike and so the headlight bucket was mostly empty.
" Your speedo is also not original if it's a 100mph." Are you saying that there were no 250 Mk3s with 100 mph headlights?
I said that while it did not come from a 250 Mk3 it was clearly an aprilia unit and was mostly intact from whatever it came on.
"Gone. All the switches, warning lights, original wiring, junction blocks ect.." As Bob pointed out the 250 Mk3 NC headlight bucket was nearly empty with no junction blocks, switches and only one indicator light for the high beam. This is an American Magneto bike and so the headlight bucket was mostly empty.
" Your speedo is also not original if it's a 100mph." Are you saying that there were no 250 Mk3s with 100 mph headlights?
Last edited by Moto Chuck on Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Moto Chuck
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Re: Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
Bob, Machten
So far I have not seen any example of a wide case headlight posted or in my books that looks to be a match for the 130mm Aprilia unit on my bike.
The speedo unit could have been replaced and it always seemed a little silly to me to put a 100 mph unit in a bike that is advertised for 110 mph. In any case I know where I can get a 150 mph unit in my garage. Will probably replace it when I put on the 150mm Aprilia unit I have squirreled away.
So far I have not seen any example of a wide case headlight posted or in my books that looks to be a match for the 130mm Aprilia unit on my bike.
The speedo unit could have been replaced and it always seemed a little silly to me to put a 100 mph unit in a bike that is advertised for 110 mph. In any case I know where I can get a 150 mph unit in my garage. Will probably replace it when I put on the 150mm Aprilia unit I have squirreled away.
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DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
[quote= Jon Pegler ...
" The hole at 4 o'clock is a standard fitment on some of the narrowcase Mototrans Ducati singles.
It is 13mm diameter and used for the dipswitch wires to pass through.
I have two Mototrans machines with that headlamp shell and both have the hole at 4 o'clock. "
____ Thanks for chiming-in on the subject Jon.
__ It's not very-clear to be definite about WHICH particular hole you're meaning to be in specific reference to,, since you haven't left any definite clue as to what particular posted-wording (about whatever headlamp) inspired your comment, nor referred to it by a previously established name (such as "key-switch hole" or "mystery-hole").
So-thus I'm left to ASSUME that you may be referring to the mystery-hole within the original headlamp-in-question.
Anyhow,, although the mystery-hole may be in the same location as such a "13mm" hole made for the handlebar-switch wire-harness, I'm pretty-sure that the mystery-hole is at-least 2mm larger. _ And also that m.hole has a lock-slot as well as a pair of satellite-holes (plus a large-diameter shadow-remnant of whatever used to sit over the m.hole) ! _ So evidently, that mystery-hole wasn't meant for a wire-harness (meant to be routed upwards to a handlebar location).
Besides, the posted-pic of the headlamp shows another hole that's located considerably higher and-thus better suited for a handlebar-switch harness.
__ So unless the Mototrans headlamps had something other than a wire-harness employing that m.hole, then I'm still sure that that odd-headlamp was meant for some-other Italian-brand motorcycle.
" That said, I don't think Moto Chucks headlamp shell is a Spanish one as the holes in the top for light switch,ignition switch and idiot light are not the same. "
____ Thanks for clarifying that conclusion and-also thus confirming the headlamp-in-question is at-least not such stock n-c.equipment.
Dukaddy-DUKEs.
-Bob
" The hole at 4 o'clock is a standard fitment on some of the narrowcase Mototrans Ducati singles.
It is 13mm diameter and used for the dipswitch wires to pass through.
I have two Mototrans machines with that headlamp shell and both have the hole at 4 o'clock. "
____ Thanks for chiming-in on the subject Jon.
__ It's not very-clear to be definite about WHICH particular hole you're meaning to be in specific reference to,, since you haven't left any definite clue as to what particular posted-wording (about whatever headlamp) inspired your comment, nor referred to it by a previously established name (such as "key-switch hole" or "mystery-hole").
So-thus I'm left to ASSUME that you may be referring to the mystery-hole within the original headlamp-in-question.
Anyhow,, although the mystery-hole may be in the same location as such a "13mm" hole made for the handlebar-switch wire-harness, I'm pretty-sure that the mystery-hole is at-least 2mm larger. _ And also that m.hole has a lock-slot as well as a pair of satellite-holes (plus a large-diameter shadow-remnant of whatever used to sit over the m.hole) ! _ So evidently, that mystery-hole wasn't meant for a wire-harness (meant to be routed upwards to a handlebar location).
Besides, the posted-pic of the headlamp shows another hole that's located considerably higher and-thus better suited for a handlebar-switch harness.
__ So unless the Mototrans headlamps had something other than a wire-harness employing that m.hole, then I'm still sure that that odd-headlamp was meant for some-other Italian-brand motorcycle.
" That said, I don't think Moto Chucks headlamp shell is a Spanish one as the holes in the top for light switch,ignition switch and idiot light are not the same. "
____ Thanks for clarifying that conclusion and-also thus confirming the headlamp-in-question is at-least not such stock n-c.equipment.
Dukaddy-DUKEs.
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob
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DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
[quote= Moto Chuck ... "
So far I have not seen any example of a wide case headlight posted or in my books that looks to be a match for the 130mm Aprilia unit on my bike. "
____ If you're certain that all the included holes, (not to mention the lack of other holes), are factory-made,, then there are no wide-case (OR n-c) headlamps that'll match your peculiar headlamp !
" The speedo unit could have been replaced "
____ No-doubt it was !
And if it doesn't state 'DUCATI' on it's clock-face, then it probably came along-with the headlamp.
" Will probably replace it when I put on the 150mm Aprilia unit I have "
____ That's probably your best way to go, then that part of your Duke won't look so odd.
__ How about posting a picture of your spare headlamp before you install it ?
Also, your present wiring could stand some organizing, and it seems to include an extra wire-circuit. _ So since you'll have-to do some wiring-reconnection work when you swap headlamps, then all that ought-to be ironed-out so that you'd then know what-all is what.
And I'd enjoy offering you some guidance with the rewiring-work !
Duke-Cheers,
DCT-Bob
So far I have not seen any example of a wide case headlight posted or in my books that looks to be a match for the 130mm Aprilia unit on my bike. "
____ If you're certain that all the included holes, (not to mention the lack of other holes), are factory-made,, then there are no wide-case (OR n-c) headlamps that'll match your peculiar headlamp !
" The speedo unit could have been replaced "
____ No-doubt it was !
And if it doesn't state 'DUCATI' on it's clock-face, then it probably came along-with the headlamp.
" Will probably replace it when I put on the 150mm Aprilia unit I have "
____ That's probably your best way to go, then that part of your Duke won't look so odd.
__ How about posting a picture of your spare headlamp before you install it ?
Also, your present wiring could stand some organizing, and it seems to include an extra wire-circuit. _ So since you'll have-to do some wiring-reconnection work when you swap headlamps, then all that ought-to be ironed-out so that you'd then know what-all is what.
And I'd enjoy offering you some guidance with the rewiring-work !
Duke-Cheers,
DCT-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob
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Moto Chuck
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Re: Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
DewCatTea-Bob wrote:[quote= Moto Chuck ... "
So far I have not seen any example of a wide case headlight posted or in my books that looks to be a match for the 130mm Aprilia unit on my bike. "
____ If you're certain that all the included holes, (not to mention the lack of other holes), are factory-made,, then there are no wide-case (OR n-c) headlamps that'll match your peculiar headlamp !
" The speedo unit could have been replaced "
____ No-doubt it was !
And if it doesn't state 'DUCATI' on it's clock-face, then it probably came along-with the headlamp.
" Will probably replace it when I put on the 150mm Aprilia unit I have "
____ That's probably your best way to go, then that part of your Duke won't look so odd.
__ How about posting a picture of your spare headlamp before you install it ?
Also, your present wiring could stand some organizing, and it seems to include an extra wire-circuit. _ So since you'll have-to do some wiring-reconnection work when you swap headlamps, then all that ought-to be ironed-out so that you'd then know what-all is what.
And I'd enjoy offering you some guidance with the rewiring-work !
Duke-Cheers,
DCT-Bob
Bob,
I will post a picture of the replacement headlight bucket. I do have a kill switch wired in that was not part of the original wiring. It simply grounds the points.
The Speedo does say DUCATI & Veglia Borletti on the clock face.
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Moto Chuck
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Re: Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy
Bob,
Here are some pictures of the Aprilia headlight unit that I picked up about 30 yrs ago.
The guy I bought it from got it with the local dealers Ducati new old stock from his shelves. Both I and Ellis (the guy who bought the NOS) don't know what is the deal with the steel and bondo patch. The parts book shows a bucket without an indicator light hole on the top of the bucket and there is no indicator light listed for the 250 Mark 3 NC 5 speed.
Your thoughts?
Chuck
Here are some pictures of the Aprilia headlight unit that I picked up about 30 yrs ago.
The guy I bought it from got it with the local dealers Ducati new old stock from his shelves. Both I and Ellis (the guy who bought the NOS) don't know what is the deal with the steel and bondo patch. The parts book shows a bucket without an indicator light hole on the top of the bucket and there is no indicator light listed for the 250 Mark 3 NC 5 speed.
Your thoughts?
Chuck