Ducati non-standard headlight? Pic-heavy

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Moto Chuck ...
" their main concern was keeping the employees at the Bologna factory busy assembling motorcycles. If this meant changing the previously specified part to continue production then so be it. "

____ I don't much agree with that seemingly reasonable contention, as back-then I never seen any actual evidence to support it !
This is the kind of subterfuge that's spread-about to help restorer-types get-away with incorrect parts installed on their want-a-be perfect-restorations.
The only virtually-legit parts-changes were indeed actually only done during rather normal model-year feature-updates, or when a contractor-supplied part had finally ran-out and it's permanent replacement took-over the position.
So, to insinuate anything of the kind that production-line workers could ever get-away with installing whatever model-part happened to-be most available during his shift, is certainly of-course absurd BS !
(But I-myself really don't care if any restorer-types continue to convince themselves otherwise.)



" in the decade of the 2010s it is deucedly hard to find documentation on what was original equipment on any given bike. "

____ It seems ya just have-to rely on & trust those elders who are still alive with their memories of what they know they saw back-then, (and when they're finally ALL gone, there will then be no-one left to impress with a perfect-restoration ! [And no-one else will really much care then.] ).



" I would also appreciate knowing why the incomplete piece on the top of the bucket is labeled "press to test" and what one was supposed to be testing by pressing the now missing part. "

____ Where exactly can that be read at ?
There's never been any such wording stated ANYWHERE on any Ducati part ! _ So if it's actually seen attached somewhere right-on your headlamp itself, then that's a good confirming indication that your headlamp-model has actually come from another Italian-bike.
However if it's tiny-print somewhere on that strange-piece atop your headlamp,, then I'd gather that it's what's left of an On/Off-switch that was taken from an old tube-tester (or equipment of the like), which a previous-owner chose to rig-up & make some use of.



" From close examination I am fairly confident that the headlight bucket and trim ring is as it came from Aprilia whether is was for this bike or another. "

____ The HL.trim-rings (far more-so than the HL.bucket/shells) easily become rusted-up to the point of needing replacement by roughly a decade's time, (if not coated-over with clear-paint),, so most-any regular example that doesn't show signs of any rusting, is quite likely a replacement for the original.
__ Your headlamp example (with the very-STRANGE/oddball threaded-piece in it's top-side), looks to be rather from a WideCase model, or perhaps even from a non-Ducati Italian-bike of some post-1966 model, (as most-all Italian-bike brands employed pretty-much the same headlamp-shells & trim-rings, back-then) !
__ Can you post a picture showing the inside of that headlamp (so we all can then see whether-or-not it all appears as any stock Ducati version !) ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[Rick]

Most of the dealers in the midwest simply put the bike out on the floor with the buckhorn handlebars, silentium mufflers and regular footpegs. If you did not know to ask for the road race kit you did not get it. One mechanic told me that they hauled a lot of rearsets and clipon kits off to the dump after the narrow cases went obsolete and the dealer figured he was not going to be able to sell any more any time soon. Here in the midwest the Mk3s were often used as the basis for flat track motorcycles. Most bodywork was discarded and short megaphones were fitted.

I'm from the northern midwest(???), and in the 1960s it was common to see a 'parts bike' in a dealership- they would take parts from it for customers instead of making them wait for a part to get sent from overseas. I expect that by the time the factory sent parts they could have been from a different paint batch or even a different supplier, so by the time they put the replacement parts on the shop 'parts bike' and sold it, it may not have looked like anything the factory ever photographed.
Rick

[Moto Chuck]

[quote= Moto Chuck ...
" From close examination I am fairly confident that the headlight bucket and trim ring is as it came from Aprilia whether is was for this bike or another. "

____ That headlamp example (with the very-STRANGE/oddball piece on top), looks to be from a WideCase model, or perhaps even from a non-Ducati Italian-bike of some post-1966 model, (as most-all Italian-bike brands employed pretty-much the same headlamp-shells & trim-rings, back-then) !
__ Can you post a picture showing the inside of that headlamp (so we all can then see whether-or-not it all appears as any stock Ducati version !) ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

I can't do it tonight but possibly tomorrow or Sunday sometime. The last time I was in there was to fix the wiring when I first got the bike. It had a smashed handlebar switch and had been run with the wires cut when I first got it. I had to go inside and make sense of the wiring to put on another headlight switch, but that was back in about 1984 or so.

Moto Chuck

[Moto Chuck]

Most of the dealers in the midwest simply put the bike out on the floor with the buckhorn handlebars, silentium mufflers and regular footpegs. If you did not know to ask for the road race kit you did not get it. One mechanic told me that they hauled a lot of rearsets and clipon kits off to the dump after the narrow cases went obsolete and the dealer figured he was not going to be able to sell any more any time soon. Here in the midwest the Mk3s were often used as the basis for flat track motorcycles. Most bodywork was discarded and short megaphones were fitted.

I'm from the northern midwest(???), and in the 1960s it was common to see a 'parts bike' in a dealership- they would take parts from it for customers instead of making them wait for a part to get sent from overseas. I expect that by the time the factory sent parts they could have been from a different paint batch or even a different supplier, so by the time they put the replacement parts on the shop 'parts bike' and sold it, it may not have looked like anything the factory ever photographed.
Rick

Remember that the Berliner specs and adverts showed the 1966-67 bikes with megaphones, conventional pegs, buckhorn bars. I am fairly certain that this is how my bike would have been sold with the possible exception of the fact that the local dealer usually put on the silentium muffler for street use unless the bike was to be used for racing. Even the little number plate and fly screen was not given the customer unless they asked for it. Withholding of the race kit parts except on request may have been a local phenomenon by the our dealer but that is how bikes were sold back then around here.

[Moto Chuck]

Well I got into the headlight bucket for the first time since the late '80s and after looking around, decided that while all the parts are original Aprilia they are most likely not original to this bike. You can see wires hanging down from the elec. fixture at the top of the shell that were never connected to anything on this bike or any Mk3.



The patches in the wiring due to the fact that the previous owner had a british handlebar switch on the original buckhorn handlebars after he accidently smashed the original with a shovel in his storage shed. I replaced the british switch with an Aprilia to get it back to OEM parts.

After some thought Rick's idea of a dealer's floor parts bike sounds like it might be a plausible explanation. That is just the kind of thing that the local dealer Wayne S. could very well have done.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Moto Chuck ...
" decided that while all the parts are original Aprilia they are most likely not original to this bike. "

____ Thanks for the pic showing the inside of your lamp-shell.
The inside is relatively empty pretty-much just like a n-c.Mark-three headlamp mostly is !
I had expected that we might find excess electrically related parts which would be indicative of the headlamp having been originally from either a wide-case or some other Italian-bike model.
__ I guess the only strong clue left to go-by, will rather be the particular locations of any original holes made through the bucket-shell. _ Have you yet closely compared it to your spare unit ? _ If your spare really is an actual Mark-3 unit, then I'm quite sure you'll find that the two examples are notably different at-least in that physical regard. _ Cuz as for one-thing,, the strange hole seen located inside near 4-o'clock, is-not a standard hole in any headlamp-shell on ANY Duke-model ! _ As I don't think the key-switch location in w-c.headlamps was located quite so low,, and I'm even more sure that the stock hole for the w-c.switch, didn't include the accompanying locator-slot. _ In fact, I'm rather sure that the hole for the w-c.key-switch is larger and located a little more towards the front.



" You can see wires hanging down from the elec. fixture at the top of the shell that were never connected to anything on this bike or any Mk3. "

____ That's the sort of clue which I had hoped to discover but, your pic.shot doesn't allow a view of whatever those dangling wires are attached to. _ Are they connected with the odd threaded-part that goes through the top ?



" After some thought Rick's idea of a dealer's floor parts bike sounds like it might be a plausible explanation. "

____ While I'm not meaning to confirm that possibility in this case,, I do know that a number of larger Ducati-dealers near larger cities, did indeed partake in such parts-swapping practice, (however at-least some smaller dealers would understandably refuse to rob parts from show-floor bikes).


____ I'm left to assume that you possibly haven't yet noticed that I've completed my past two previous posts.
Hopefully by now, you will have,, and will then respond accordingly.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[amartina75]

You seem to be hanging on to the idea that your headlight bucket and the parts it contains is somehow original or done before it was sold at the dealer. You seem to have blinders on or something because there is clearly nothing original to do with your headlight. It's a clear piece together job by a previous owner. While Rick's idea of a
Parts bike sounds very reasonable and plausible I don't think it applies to
Your bike. Just going by what I see in the picture everything that it should have in it is
Gone. All the switches, warning lights, original wiring, junction blocks ect... Also someone removed the rivets holding the headlight ear mounts and replaced them with bolts. Whatever that thing is at the top
It surely did NOT come on your bike originally. Your speedo is also not original if it's a 100mph.
The paint is not original either, Rick's explanation of that is surely plausible. Or it may have been in a wreck.
If you are concerned with originality you could certainly refer to the parts book and make it look like it should. If you don't care then just ride it as is.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= amartina75 ...
" Just going by what I see in the picture everything that it should have in it is
Gone. All the switches,
junction blocks ect... "

____ Those would be good points to've included, IF the Mark-3 in question had rather been a wide-case model.
But the headlamps on n-c.Mark-three models were pretty-much empty of anything other than wiring & wiring-connectors, plus a high-beam indicator circuit.


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[machten]

Actually, there was one (and only one I can think of) that had a similarly shaped headlight bucket and lens and the key position at 4 o'clock and that's the silver shotgun. I can't recall what holes it had for idiot lights though, but it could one of these.

Here's a pic of a totally unmolested one with about 7000km on the clock.

Capture.JPG

Regards,

Kev

[machten]

Found another pic, my apologies, it's not very clear when zoomed up. Looks like the Shotgun bucket had three holes for indicator lights, so not one of those, then, it seems...

Capture2.JPG

Regards,

Kev