1966 Mach 1 basement find

[Dave450]

I'd also like opinions on a procedure to get it running the first time...

What a great find! You are clearly knowledgeable about singles, but if you want to bounce some ideas off us, here goes. If it has been lying up for a long time, you risk metal on metal contact and accelerated wear if you start it up after lying in one position for perhaps decades. If you really want to start it up without overhauling it, might I suggest you remove the timing and primary covers, and the valve and top bevel covers and squirt engine oil onto as many moving parts you can reach. When you take off the covers, you will immediately see how much corrosion and sludge is present (or not, as the case may be), which you can clean carefully. God knows what the oil will look like when you drain the sump. Turn it over slowly and carefully with the plug out to check if it rotates smoothly and quietly through the gears - having dropped a bit of light oil into the bore first. The clutch may need to be freed out and you may have to remove the plates en bloc to separate them. Drop some oil into the oil pump through the suction orifice and turn the pump to check if it rotates smoothly and you will also see if oil is coming out from the feeds to the head and the crankshaft bush. Squirt some oil into the big end and check if it is coming out through the oil ways in the primary drive pinion. Check the valve clearances and check that the shaft nuts are not loose.

If all seems OK, with fresh oil and the timing and primary covers on, but the valve and bevel covers still off, kick it over until oil flows out into the cambox, and if the camshaft has a jet at the bevel end, through that jet onto the bevel gears. If you can get a spark and the carb is clean, then start it up and run it until the oil is warm, then drain to remove as much old crap as possible and re-fill. With a single this good and original, you want to minimise metal on metal contact and crap circulating in unfiltered oil. If it has compression - happy days! If not, you may have to lift the top end to free the rings and then you might as well inspect the head while it's off and check for play in the big end. There is a risk that the rollers have rusted against the crankpin and rod and the surfaces may be pitted. There is no way of knowing for sure unless you split the crank.

Once you run it, you will hear if any bearings are shot, you will see if it is burning oil, and you will notice when it develops good compression again. I hope it works out for you. You have a nice machine.

Dave

[flynbulldog]

If yours has anything supporting the back of the tank, that looks like it was factory issue, could you describe it, or take a photo. I’m wanting to get something a bit better for there as well.

There are 2 pieces of foam rubber about 3x5 stacked together that were taped to the frame. I didn't think they looked original but there was some cloth tape left in the mix that could well be stock. I suppose it could be the original stuff...
What are most of you using now?

[flynbulldog]

Dave, thanks very much for that description on how to start for the first time. I'll heed your advice.

So far I've pulled the front valve cover and it looks clean and surprisingly wet with oil. No rust anywhere (this is arid colorado and the bike has been here it's entire life) I also had to remove the filler neck and I placed a cup under to catch what oozed out. That oil at the top of the case is clean and clear - honey colored.
Another amazing part is the wheels and muffler have nearly perfect original chrome - no pitting no rust, the muffler does have some typical haze from the years. No rust on the spokes and the silver paint on them looks very very good.
I've only turned it over very slowly by hand a few times and it turns smoothly and quietly and it does produce compression with the plug in place. I'll let you know more when I get to that stage.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= machten ...
" Things may well have changed in the intervening years between 1959 and 66, but here's what's on my 1959 175 Sport... "

____ This reminds me that, (in place of the black-sponge), Scrambler-models rather employed a couple layers of black-rubber padding which was about 3.5mm thick, in total.
__ I've altered & re-posted your picture (here below)...
Could you please further explain what it seems we're supposed to be seeing exactly ? _ I-myself think I may be seeing a battery-support rubber-pad (with some white powder-corrosion imbedded atop), setting on top of some kind of orange-colored foamy-stuff.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[double diamond]

I visiting Harry’s a few times before they finally closed the old shop in downtown Denver. Pretty interesting place. Is there a Harry’s decal on the bike? Since authentic Mach 1’s were not a cataloged model from Berliner in the 1960’s, this is an especially curious find. Does the frame have a number stamped in it? It would be on the main frame backbone in the vicinity of the battery tray. Is there a foil I.D. tag on the steering head? What is the engine number? I would be curious to see at what end of the production spectrum it falls. In addition to all the previous suggestions for start up, it is possible to fill the entire oil system by removing the threaded plug on the end of the crank (primary side). You can access this plug by removing the large brass plug on the primary cover. I’ve been told the threaded plug in the crank end is staked, but I’ve never encountered this, Removes with a flat screwdriver. Sitting for that long, if one of the valves was open, rust may have formed on the seat or the valve, but as you mentioned, it’s pretty dry in Colorado, so may be OK. As far as painting the tank, since it’s already a repaint, hasn’t been pinstriped and it’s not the correct pattern for a Mach 1, plus if it was dropped, might have bondo under the paint, you might as well repaint the tank. Is there a valve lifter lever installed on the front valve cover? I notice the second lever on the clutch perch and looks like there’s a cable going down to the valve cover. Anyway, remarkable condition and a very rare find in the US.

Matt

[Dave450]

Dave, thanks very much for that description on how to start for the first time. I'll heed your advice.

So far I've pulled the front valve cover and it looks clean and surprisingly wet with oil. No rust anywhere (this is arid colorado and the bike has been here it's entire life) I also had to remove the filler neck and I placed a cup under to catch what oozed out. That oil at the top of the case is clean and clear - honey colored.
Another amazing part is the wheels and muffler have nearly perfect original chrome - no pitting no rust, the muffler does have some typical haze from the years. No rust on the spokes and the silver paint on them looks very very good.
I've only turned it over very slowly by hand a few times and it turns smoothly and quietly and it does produce compression with the plug in place. I'll let you know more when I get to that stage.

Sounds great news. I get so used to seeing how time and damp in these islands do such damage. I think you're on a winner. Keep us posted!

[machten]

Could you please further explain what it seems we're supposed to be seeing exactly ? _ I-myself think I may be seeing a battery-support rubber-pad (with some white powder-corrosion imbedded atop), setting on top of some kind of orange-colored foamy-stuff (resting on the rear-fender).

The short answer is, "I'm not sure". I've included more of the original photo. I'm in Australia and the 175 is in the UK, so I've only got this photo to go on. The "foamy stuff" looks to me like the stuff that used to be used in cars of era to dampen sound between the engine compartment and the cockpit, As to the rest, your guess is as good as mine. The rest of the 175 seems almost perfectly stock, which is why I posted this photo - but of course, I cannot be sure this wasn't done at some time later.

IMG_2701-small.jpg

Kev

[flynbulldog]

I visiting Harry’s a few times before they finally closed the old shop in downtown Denver. Pretty interesting place. Is there a Harry’s decal on the bike? Since authentic Mach 1’s were not a cataloged model from Berliner in the 1960’s, this is an especially curious find. Does the frame have a number stamped in it? It would be on the main frame backbone in the vicinity of the battery tray. Is there a foil I.D. tag on the steering head? What is the engine number? I would be curious to see at what end of the production spectrum it falls. In addition to all the previous suggestions for start up, it is possible to fill the entire oil system by removing the threaded plug on the end of the crank (primary side). You can access this plug by removing the large brass plug on the primary cover. I’ve been told the threaded plug in the crank end is staked, but I’ve never encountered this, Removes with a flat screwdriver. Sitting for that long, if one of the valves was open, rust may have formed on the seat or the valve, but as you mentioned, it’s pretty dry in Colorado, so may be OK. As far as painting the tank, since it’s already a repaint, hasn’t been pinstriped and it’s not the correct pattern for a Mach 1, plus if it was dropped, might have bondo under the paint, you might as well repaint the tank. Is there a valve lifter lever installed on the front valve cover? I notice the second lever on the clutch perch and looks like there’s a cable going down to the valve cover. Anyway, remarkable condition and a very rare find in the US.

Matt

Hi Matt,
Yes, two Harrys decals, one on the front fender and one on the top of the tail light housing. Also the title lists Harry's as the seller.
No frame stamp, there is a foil sticker on the front and the numbers all seem to be right. The engine number is 01001.
Although the engine ID stamp is DM250M1 the foil states model as M3. the year on the foil is uncommitted - haha - 196
One curious thing, the writing on the foil is in Italian - weren't the foils added here in NA by Berliner? Would it not be in English?

There were some very strange mods done to this bike and one of them was the compression release. I spotted a lone valve cover sitting in the corner of the PO's basement and figured that must be the original valve cover.
I was able to get it and have already changed it back - that's why I had the valve cover off.

I am leaning toward a repaint of the tank because it doesn't seem to be original to me. (I could be wrong) I would love to hear any objections and thoughts on this step.
I usually do my own painting but I may have a shop do this one. I've talked with a shop owner that I know and we discussed painting it in a way that matches the bikes current condition and luster.
I think we can make it look like it belongs and doesn't stand out from the rest of the bike.

[double diamond]

Jim Franzen has a Mach 1 like this. A bona-fide Mach 1 but it had a Berliner frame tag with the model stamped as M3. Seems to me Jim thought his M1 was originally from Canada? I've never found any information on who the Canadian Ducati distributor was in the 1960's. Was it another sub-distributor of Berliner's (like those they supported in the US) or did Canada import directly from Ducati? I've noted several Mach 1's that originated in Canada. There were a couple of direct importers in the US but these wouldn't have had frame tags. The Harry's decals could have been applied when the bike was new or later if it was a trade-in or consignment. Berliner could have received a few Mach 1's in a shipment from Ducati and just tagged them as M3's. Never seen a Mach 1 in a period Berliner advertisement so these US Mach 1's are something of a puzzle.

There have been many statements that the frame foils were added by Berliner but I imagine the foils were supplied by Ducati to Berliner, so they were screened in Italian. There might be a part number in the catalog for the tags, I'll have to look. This frame tag question is also puzzling; why wouldn't Ducati tag the bikes at the factory before shipping to Berliner? But I've seen many comments that Berliner installed the tags so it seems to be the consensus.

Every Mach 1 I've ever seen had the same gas tank paint pattern as the last production Mark 3, what I refer to as the "swift" design. The differences in paint between the two models was the chassis color (red on Mach 1, black on Mark 3) and I believe the pinstriping on the tool boxes was different; one was yellow, the other red. I have an original tank if you need details on the pattern.

Matt

[flynbulldog]

I looked in the parts catalog and Ducati does list a part number for the foil so it is possible that the foil was supplied by Ducati and hence the Italian language. curious that the final year number wasn't stamped on the foil.
I know that Ducatis were often titled as the year they were sold and not the year of manufacture back in those days so that may be why the year was left blank.
Ducati didn't stamp frame numbers and I believe that the US required a VIN stamped on the frame - I think these foil tags were a way to meet that requirement in the US.
The date of sale on the title was 1976 so Harrys motors was definitely a resale 10 years after the original sale. I don't know where the bike was originally sold. It could very well be from Canada.