diana mark 3 wiring

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= hobby ...
" When I bought the bike there was no KS on it at all. "

____ So then how can you be sure that your particular early Mark-III EVER had any ks.mechanism from the factory ?



" I was given the now installed KS assembly through a friend in the US who said it was for a 250 narrows case. "

____ But the driven-ks.gear can't be from just ANY n-c.250 motor ! ... In order to be able to work with the engagement-teeth of 1st.gear, it HAS to be from a 4-speed n-c.motor !
Was your source for the set of n-c/ks.parts aware of that fact ?



" Some bits were missing I found out later such as the ramp plate etc. "

____ But if the major ks.parts had simply been removed by a previous-owner, then it's fairly doubtful that an-original driven-gear's disengagement lift-ramp plate would've been bothered-with to be removed from it's installed place on the case. _ So I'm left to consider that your Mk.III-motor never actually had any ks.parts originally installed from the factory, (unless you could detect a clue of a shadow left-behind from a previously removed lift-plate).
__ So since you acquired your Mark-III motor without ANY ks.parts, then what the heck was installed into the ks.shaft-hole to keep oil from escaping out-through that otherwise gaping hole ??



" I also changed the original NC style spring system to the later more reliable coil spring system. "

____ Hopefully it was done top-notch/competently.



" When I pull the unit apart again I will make some pics for you to see. "

____ While I no-doubt already know what the engagement-teeth will look like on 1st.gear,, the corresponding engagement-teeth on the (unknown) ks.driven-gear, are likely to be the wrong type. _ I'll let you know after I see your pix.



" It did look like that the shape of the teeth on the two meshing gears were not the same shape. One more pointy teeth while the other more flat teeth. "

____ It's just as well that you didn't also mention which tooth-type is of which gear,, as now I can more-so assure you of what's-what, by blind-telling you that the teeth with the more pointed tips are found on 1st.gear, while the teeth with the flattened-tips are what's found on your later-acquired ks.driven-gear which you've been trying to get to properly engage,, correct ?
__ If this mismatch-situation is indeed the case, then THAT's the sure source of your slipping-issue,, as those two alternate types of ks.engagement/gear-teeth are NOT-meant to be meshed-together !



" This is what makes me think there might be different model gears perhaps. "

____ INDEED-so, as there most certainly were several different types of n-c/ks.gear setups !



" They do not look worn as such but just different way they machined the teeth. "

____ The engagement-teeth with the flattened-tips are of a newer design.



" It looks as if the teeth will not mesh deep enough into each other. Only 1.3mm which seems wrong. "

____ That's no-doubt due-to the miss-meshing of the two non-matching types of engagement-teeth.



" I have no problems riding rare bikes.
Just a different opinion I guess. "

____ So where has there been any "different opinion" ?
Actually 'riding' a rare-Duke is a very privileged-treat !
__ However shipping one off-to somewhere with hopes that it will BE-there to ride, is actually what I wouldn't be so keen on doing !


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[hobby]

I do think this model did come with a kick start assembly, as the hole in the side case was a later machined aluminium plug fitted. Also the mesh gear inb the case was there still and does show some minor wear marking. Also the bush in the engine cases that accommodate the kick start shaft does have some wear which makes me believe it was used at least. I am also trying to find an early advert from Berliner that shos this model as I think it shows the kick start on there. I will keep looking.
I think however that most people removed them as they mainly raced these bikes.
I think you have confirmed my thoughts on that the two gears are not matching and I need an earlier model gear to match the engine case gear. All I need to do now is find one in good condition. The upgrade coil spring works fine.
At least now I have some time on my hands to finish this bike and get it on the road without the hurry.
Paul

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= hobby ...
" I do think this model did come with a kick start assembly, as the hole in the side case was a later machined aluminium plug fitted. Also the mesh gear inb the case was there still and does show some minor wear marking. Also the bush in the engine cases that accommodate the kick start shaft does have some wear which makes me believe it was used at least.
I think however that most people removed them as they mainly raced these bikes. "

____ Then I guess I'm back to thinking that these early-Mk.IIIs did come with kick-starters, after-all.



" the two gears are not matching and I need an earlier model gear to match the engine case gear. "

____ The "engine case gear" is actually the same-part as 'first-gear' ! _ As THAT driven-gear not-only has the std.4-speed 44-tooth 1st.gear, but also includes the ks.engagement-teeth for the starter-function, (all in a single piece) !



" All I need to do now is find one in good condition. "

____ Then shop for a driven-ks.gear preferably intended for a 250 4-speed motor.



" The upgrade coil spring works fine. "

____ Of-course I'm sure that any suitable coil-spring would do-so,, however it's the mod-work for adapting it's related securing-bracket, that may be done less than most desirably.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[hobby]

I used the a new bridge bracket to hold the coil spring in place. One bold to fix one end in the usual place and a second one drilled through the case and a tread tapped. Included in that an aluminium stud drilled and tapped to create the spacing. The bolt runs through this spacer stud. This was also angled off at the bottom where it sits against the engine case in the correct place.

I am somewhat worried about the availability of the mesh gear for a 4 speed NC engine. But I will start searching.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= hobby ...
" a second one drilled through the case and a tread tapped. Included in that an aluminium stud drilled and tapped to create the spacing. The bolt runs through this spacer stud. This was also angled off at the bottom where it sits against the engine case in the correct place. "

____ A pic of that installation would be sort-of nice for everyone to see.

" I am somewhat worried about the availability of the mesh gear for a 4 speed NC engine. "

____ I had a whole box of such related parts, (most-all in rather rusty condition),, but it no-doubt got stolen along-with all the other metal parts I had (which got sold for mere scrap prices !).
__ There are no-doubt others who still have similar collections of such parts.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[hobby]

Here are two adverts showing that they came out with a kick start. One is of a 1963 Diana and the other is like mine a mark 111 from 1961

[hobby]

you will note that the top advert is the mark 111 with the longer rear mudguard like mine and the bottom one is a mark3 and had a shorter rear mudguard. IN the top advertisement you can see the kick starter. hope this helps us all.
Paul

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Certainly there's got to be somebody who's been properly following the recent posts concerning Mark-three models closely enough to suspect (as I do), that 'hobby' either doesn't care-much to further relate correct-details (which I've posted for everyone's consumption), or-else doesn't seem to get a good grasp of such details.
__ If you/the-reader realize what-all I'm referring-to here, then YOU have been actually able to learn the details from me.




[quote= hobby ...
" Here are two adverts showing that they came out with a kick start. "

____ Did you not read & understand the post I posted in response to the post by fellow-member 'ducwiz' on this issue ?
__ It's always been quite fairly well-known that the later-ESTABLISHED line of all 4-speed Mark-III models did indeed come stock with kick-starters ! _ However, it's of the very-first batch delivered to Berliner that I've wondered about in regards to actually having any ks.parts originally installed,, THAT'S-ALL !.
__ You are most-likely correct that it was the original-owners who removed all the ks.parts from their race-only/most-early version (from the original production-batch of Mark-IIIs).
__ Thanks for posting your ad.pics !
I've expanded them for hopefully improved viewing.



" One is of a 1963 Diana "

____ Hopefully you can grasp & retain this detailed stuff ...
__ Firstly,, NEITHER is a mere 'Diana' ! _ As the 'Diana 250' model was never a 'Mark III' model, (but-however merely looked more-like a Mark-III, and-yet motored rather just-like a Monza ) !



" and the other is like mine a mark 111 from 1961 "

____ Secondly,, they are BOTH considered as rather early* 'Diana Mark III' models, and both are no-doubt 4-speed versions. _ (* They're considered as "early" versions because they were-not considered as street-legal models, as they neither included a l.plate-bracket or any brake-light.)
Also, while it's somewhat possible that the oldest of those two could've perhaps been made in late-61, I'm fairly-sure that neither version is an actual 1961-model.



" you will note that the top advert is the mark 111 with the longer rear mudguard like mine and the bottom one is a mark3 and had a shorter rear mudguard. "

____ Thirdly,, NEITHER is an actual 'Mark 3' model, (or "mark 111" either, for that matter) !
We just can't keep going-around referring-to these Ducati-models by all the various off-names which any-O so&so chooses to call them by (and avoid confusion, now can we ?) ! ...
We really need to rather stick-to the very distinctive OFFICIAL-names given by Ducati-themselves for their very-own model-lines !
The Berliner-ad stating "Diana MK 3" is a slang/nick-name which BERLINER-themselves came-up with all on their-own, (just to-be 'cool', [in those-days]),, and therefore is NOT an official Ducati-given name !!
Also,, "mark 111" or even 'Mark iii' would be considered as slang, and we really don't need anyMORE such pop-names to come-into the mix and further confuse the already screwed-up mess of misnames which we have already long been having to deal-with (most-often spread-around by ignorant 'bikers') !
__ Am I-myself the ONLY-one here who gives-a-$#!+ about such sensible-ORDER, here with this rather detailed stuff ?
(Sorry I feel the need to get a bit mean about this, but who-else here would be bothered or inclined to press such matter !? )
____ I've re-posted your posted-pics (after enlarging them), with hopes of now being able to better see the details within those two adverts.


DUKADDY-DUKEs,
DCT-Bob

[hobby]

Bob I have one question after all this confusion about names, what in your opinion is the correct model name for the bike in the top picture?

I just posted these two photos for interest sake and mainly to show the advertisement of the model that looks closest to the one I have being the top photo. I do not mean to upset anyone.

Paul

[hobby]

I assume the correct name/model of my bike as I understand your communications is Ducati Diana 4 speed 250 Mark III? Please correct me if I am wrong!