1965 Monza Jr 160 Wiring & Battery Options

[thatnameisal]

Hi gang

Issues are two-fold:

1. Battery:

I am having the worst time trying to find a battery that will fit in my 65 Jr battery box - dimensions:

50mm deep, 125mm tall, 125mm wide.

Spare parts catalog calls for "SAFA 3 IL 3 - 6V - 7Ah"

Any thoughts as to what might fit/work here?

2. Wiring Issue:

I rebuilt a wiring loom from the stock schematics found here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38436699/Ducati%20160%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf

The only thing I cannot figure out is the key-switch. My 65 did not come with a push-in pin style key but rather a regular key and cylinder with two positions - On and Off as well as only two connection screws (continuity only in the "On" position)

Do I wire 9, 11, & 12 wires to one screw then 10 and ground wires to the other screw and hope for the best?

[joe46ho]

The battery for your monza jr. is a B39-6 and is available almost anywhere.

On the wiring...

"Do I wire 9, 11, & 12 wires to one screw then 10 and ground wires to the other screw and hope for the best?"

NO do not do that...

You really should have the push in style key switch, but most likely it got broken at some point and was swapped out...
There are tons of options on switches, just make sure in the "off" position that 11/12 are connected to ground (to stop the spark and kill the engine) while 9/10 are not connected... Then in the "on" position 11/12 should have no connection to ground, and 9/10 should be connected to eachother...
Another option is to just use a simple 2 terminal on/off key or toggle switch to complete the circuit of 9/10 (put this in the keyswitch hole) Then use a handlebar mounted momentary pushbutton killswitch to complete the circuit of 11/12 to ground.

Joe

[JimF]

This is kind of embarrassing - but I use a "Barbie Car" battery in the Mach 1.

I guess the correct term is a "Power Wheels" battery as it is used in other kiddie cars too.

Available at toy stores, they are 6-volt, from 9.5ah to 12ah (more stored power than called for) sealed and rechargeable. The size is pretty close to the battery shelf on the narrowcase and the height works well too. Some have a blade type fuse incorporated into the power wire which is a good thing (extra safety.) I was lucky enough to find one in black plastic.

Power_wheels.jpg

http://www.batterycentralmall.com/Batte ... heels.html

[gregwils]

This is kind of embarrassing - but I use a "Barbie Car" battery in the Mach 1.

Just as long as you don't start spending more time planning what you are going to wear to ride that actually riding, we can overlook it.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= thatnameisal ...
" I am having the worst time trying to find a battery that will fit in my 65 Jr battery box - "

____ The 160-model uses the same battery as a 1966 250-Scr.model (and not that of any other n-c.model).
It's not necessary for the battery to be as large as it is, so a smaller/more-common battery could possibly be employed instead.


" Any thoughts as to what might fit/work here? "

____ A smaller 6v.battery from a Jap.bike may fit & work well enough for you,, and if you don't still have the original-type battery retaining hardware, then you may as well not bother to obtain a stock-sized battery.



" My 65 did not come with a push-in pin style key but rather a regular key and cylinder with two positions - On and Off as well as only two connection screws
Do I wire 9, 11, & 12 wires to one screw then 10 and ground wires to the other screw and hope for the best? "

____ Certainly you've already realized on your-own that all the hope you could ever manage to muster-up, couldn't possibly fill-in for the deficiency of that proposed fix-alternative !
__ If you're not caring too-much about retaining stock-type parts,, you could possibly maintain Ducati's originally-intended key-switch electrical-connections with the use of a (uncommon type*) relay-unit, wherein the relay's secondary-circuit is normally-closed (* and only opens when activated). _ That way, you could use such a relay to perform the 'kill-switch function' of the stock-switch's two separate On/Off-functions, (and retain your replacement key-switch).
OR,, rather than ground-out the alt.power to the ign.system, (as Ducati chose to do with their dual-switch),, you could instead employ a standard/common-type relay to rather break-open the alt.power-circuit so-as to cut-off the alt.power to the ign.system. _ That way,, when you turn-on your key-switch, the relay would then become activated and allow alt.power-juice to become connected to the ign.system.
__ Otherwise, I'd preferably recommend replacing your simple/common single-circuit key-switch with one which has dual-circuits.
____ Whatever manor you finally choose for addressing your main electrical-connection issue, I'd be glad to suggest how best to wire-up component-connections for you.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[thatnameisal]

First, thank you all for your contributions and assistance.

I am attaching a picture of the spare parts catalog showing the key/cylinder for this model

Looks like I have an original ignition switch, but the wiring diagram (probably) is for a later model Monza Jr.

[thatnameisal]

[
____ Whatever manor you finally choose for addressing your main electrical-connection issue, I'd be glad to suggest how best to wire-up component-connections for you.

PLEASE help me, Bob. I am going to retain the switch that I have that seems to be the original part for this bike which has two positions: On & Off and two screw connectors.

I made my own wiring loom from the diagram in my first post. Certainly I can add whatever need be, but the loom is shrink wrapped and installed so I would much rather do the mods in the lampshell instead of starting over, if possible.

[thatnameisal]

Here is a completed wiring diagram for my bike.

Still would like some recommendations how to wire my 2 post key switch to work with this wiring loom. The bike is so original I am trying to stick to using original parts. The wiring diagram shows a 4 post switch but the 1965 parts manual shows a 2 post switch like the one I have.

Thanks again for any help!

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= thatnameisal ...
" Still would like some recommendations how to wire my 2 post key switch to work with this wiring loom. The bike is so original I am trying to stick to using original parts. The wiring diagram shows a 4 post switch but the 1965 parts manual shows a 2 post switch like the one I have. "

____ Sorry but, I only recall 160-models only ever having just the regular dual-pair terminal-post key-switch ! _ THAT key/main-switch has two completely separated circuits, with one circuit becoming 'closed' (like a std.switch), and the other-circuit becoming 'opened' , whenever the key has activated that main-switch !
The circuit that's standard, allows connection of the battery to power-up the sections of the 160-system that are powered by 6v.DC,, while the (somewhat oddly) reversed-circuit of that dual-circuit switch is used to ground-out the alt.power (that's otherwise ALWAYS connected to the ign.system), whenever the key is removed.
So you see then, that that-switch always has one or the other switch-connection in an activated-state regardless of whether the key is either in OR out !
__ So it should now be realized that the 160-system can't possibly have both it's DC and AC circuit-pathways BOTH controlled by merely-just ONE On/Off-circuit (with it's mere single-pair of connection-posts) !
So next, we must need to explore just what you actually have for a key-switch ! ...
__ I'd have to ASSUME that it's simple single-circuit would most likely be a standard-type On/Off-affair, with it making NO-connection UNTIL the key has activated it. _ But you'll need to check for that to be certain for-sure.
So do you have any way you can check it out, to learn whether your main-switch actually connects it's two terminal-posts, (both with key inserted and also, with key removed) ?
In any case,, can you post pix of your key & switch, showing the switch from a side-angle and-also it's single-pair of terminal-posts ?
__ IF your strange main-switch is really 'stock', (which I much doubt), then your (stock) handlebar-switch should have BOTH a horn-switch AND a kill-button, (in order to cope with your simplified main-switch) ! _ I recall seeing such circuit set-ups on some small-sized Italian-bike but, non sure if ever also on any 160 Duke-model.
Can you report on all the switch-positions which your handlebar-switch has, (if you can't post a good pic of it) ?

____ Sorry for making you wait so long for my reply !
__ Back when you placed your first-post here, I then had been waiting to feel more like getting on-line & typing posts,, but I thought I ought to get the ball rolling a bit ahead of time, so I got started here for the time when I expected to be back to normal. _ BUT RATHER, I instead got steadily worse and had to go-back to the hospital !


Jr.Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[thatnameisal]

So you see then, that that-switch always has one or the other switch-connection in an activated-state regardless of whether the key is either in OR out !
__ So it should now be realized that the 160-system can't possibly have both it's DC and AC circuit-pathways BOTH controlled by merely-just ONE On/Off-circuit (with it's mere single-pair of connection-posts) !

Bob:

Upon further reflection (and speaking to my un-electro-deficient brother), YES - you are absolutely correct only wire 9 runs on AC and that goes directly to "Diode"/rectifier.

Therefore, I MUST have a non-OEM switch. I think the actual original looks like this, yes:


This item is found in the un-obtainium catalog. If anyone finds/has one to sell, please feel free to let me know where to buy it...in the mean time I guess I will buy a 3-position/4-post to work around.