Troubleshooting Alternator Wiring

[ecurbruce]

I need some assistance in thinking through the way my alternator is wired to the voltage regulator.

I have a 12 volt regulator that negative grounds through the case to the chassis, and has three pins, one to the battery by way of a relay, and two positive pins to connect the alternator to.
The alternator is the one that I modified to a six coil to fit into a narrow case engine. ( see six coil alternator in a narrow case 250
by ecurbruce » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:45 pm(currently on page 21 of this forum...). The alternator has four wires exiting the case, black, green, white, and red. The two sets of series coils are isolated from eachother.
The white wire and the red wire have continuity, and so are connected to one set of coils. There is 5 ohms resistance.
The green wire and the black wire have continuity, and so are connected to the second set of coils. There is 4 ohms resistance.
There is no continuity between the two sets of coils,(ie-black is isolated from red, white,, green is isolated from red, white,, red is isolated from green, black,, white is isolated from green, black.) the black wire is connected to the alternator in the position of the original wire connection, as is the white wire to the other original position. The green wire and the red wire are connected to their respective coils where the original ground was lifted from stator.
I prefer to wire this circuit in parallel, so as I understand it, here's how I routed the wires; black wire, white wire together on one of the positive terminals of the regulator, green wire, red wire together on the other positive terminal of the regulator. - Parallel, as simple as that, right?
Well... Wired this way, the system produces no power...
Next, I disconnected just the black wire, so as to disconnect one of the series of coils, and the system supplies power in this configuration, with just one series of coils connected!
Connected this way the charging system acts predictable, in that the headlamp gets brighter as RPM's go up, and the voltage regulator is supplying voltage to the battery as the RPM's increase.
So now I'm second guessing what I believed is the way to connect the alternator in parallel. Is it as easy as paring up the wires from the series of coils onto the two positive terminals on the regulator. Am I missing something obvious here?
Looking for ideas, before I proceed with swapping wires around,
Bruce.

[wcorey]

Hey Bruce,

No "E" scheme?

It's likely you've got the polarity backwards between the two coil sets and they're cancelling each other out.
Try black/red, white/green, won't hurt anything either way.

You knew that anyway but just wanted confirmation...


Maybe you should go back for a refresher and re-read through all 36 pages, .


Bill

[DewCatTea-Bob]

I need some assistance in thinking through the way my alternator is wired to the voltage regulator.

I have a 12 volt regulator that negative grounds through the case to the chassis, and has three pins, one to the battery by way of a relay, and two positive pins to connect the alternator to.
The alternator is the one that I modified to a six coil to fit into a narrow case engine. ( see six coil alternator in a narrow case 250
by ecurbruce » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:45 pm(currently on page 21 of this forum...). The alternator has four wires exiting the case, black, green, white, and red. The two sets of series coils are isolated from eachother.
The white wire and the red wire have continuity, and so are connected to one set of coils. There is 5 ohms resistance.
The green wire and the black wire have continuity, and so are connected to the second set of coils. There is 4 ohms resistance.
There is no continuity between the two sets of coils,(ie-black is isolated from red, white,, green is isolated from red, white,, red is isolated from green, black,, white is isolated from green, black.) the black wire is connected to the alternator in the position of the original wire connection, as is the white wire to the other original position. The green wire and the red wire are connected to their respective coils where the original ground was lifted from stator.
I prefer to wire this circuit in parallel, so as I understand it, here's how I routed the wires; black wire, white wire together on one of the positive terminals of the regulator, green wire, red wire together on the other positive terminal of the regulator. - Parallel, as simple as that, right?
Well... Wired this way, the system produces no power...
Next, I disconnected just the black wire, so as to disconnect one of the series of coils, and the system supplies power in this configuration, with just one series of coils connected!
Connected this way the charging system acts predictable, in that the headlamp gets brighter as RPM's go up, and the voltage regulator is supplying voltage to the battery as the RPM's increase.
So now I'm second guessing what I believed is the way to connect the alternator in parallel. Is it as easy as paring up the wires from the series of coils onto the two positive terminals on the regulator. Am I missing something obvious here?
Looking for ideas, before I proceed with swapping wires around,
Bruce.

____ First-off, since you knew where your original-thread could be found, I'm left to wonder what you reasoning was for starting ANOTHER thread concerning your modified-alternator ??
__ Anyhow I believe I know what's-WHAT with your plight and it seems clear that you should've come here FIRST with your intentions, to get top-notch advice ahead of time.
There are so MANY points I'd like to start-out with FIRST, but I'll just have to do the usual-response and tackle things in the order you've already established. ...



" I have a 12 volt regulator that negative grounds through the case to the chassis, "

____ Can you post a pic of your regulator-unit ? _ Do you KNOW whether it includes a F-W.rectifier ?


" and has three pins, one to the battery
, and two positive pins to connect the alternator to. "

____ If the unit includes a rectifier, then the post-pins/terminals that are meant-to connect to an alternator are NOT "positive" ones I ... Rather, they're actually 'AC.inputs'.



" The alternator is the one that I modified to a six coil to fit into a narrow case engine. "

____ As I recall, you (trickily) installed an additional pair of (unmodified !/?) stock-type power-coils to an otherwise stock 6-pole n-c.stator, so as to emulate the workings of a standard w-c.stator,, is that not correct ?



" The alternator has four wires exiting the case, black, green, white, and red. The two sets of series coils are isolated from eachother.
The white wire and the red wire have continuity, and so are connected to one set of coils. There is 5 ohms resistance.
The green wire and the black wire have continuity, and so are connected to the second set of coils. There is 4 ohms resistance. "

____ Alright, in other-words, (similar to a w-c.type alt.winding-arrangement *),, you have two separate/isolated stator-windings which both wind-through all six power-coils, (* except that you've avoided the w-c.type's red/common-lead). _ And-so you've got a white/red-circuit and-also a black/green-circuit.
__ (It was smart to rather make-use of 2-PAIRS of wires-leads, [and-thus avoid employing a common-lead] !)
____ Your stated "5 ohms" & "4 ohms" seems rather high to me. _ So did you actually mean '.5' & '.4' ohms ?



" the black wire is connected to the alternator in the position of the original wire connection, as is the white wire to the other original position. "

____ So your WHITE and your BLACK wire-leads are connected to the alt.stator in-place of the original yellow wire-leads...
__ That's smart in that just as white & black are 'opposites', SO ARE the polarities of the terminals to which they're connected !


" The green wire and the red wire are connected to their respective coils where the original ground was lifted from stator. "

____ While not the best color-choices, that is advantageous to keep the two stator-circuits isolated, (instead of using a 'common', or especially direct-grounding,, as Ducati has economically-done).



____ I prefer to wire this circuit in parallel, "

____ Did you have the two stator-circuits connected in 'series' before ?
If-so, it didn't really matter either-way, PROVIDING-that your intended load-system's resulting/total resistance is NOT lower than the (then extended-single) stator-winding's maximum 'impedance', (which would be somewhat even-higher than the .5+.4 total 'resistance' !)
__ I'm wondering exactly-why you have come to choose to arrange the two stator-circuits in 'parallel' ? _ Is it because you've read & understood my postings within the thread (posted by Nick) about the related magazine-article ?
__ Anyhow, if you intend to power a load-system with LOW-resistance, (like under 1-ohm),, then it's fairly-important to employ a 'parallel' alt.winding-arrangement, so as to make-sure that MOST-all produced alt.power is rather spent on the intended LOAD-system (instead of significantly-partially wasted by the stator-winding itself, [as would certainly be the case with the simpler series-arrangement] !) !



" so as I understand it, here's how I routed the wires;
black wire, white wire together on one of the positive terminals of the regulator,
green wire, red wire together on the other positive terminal of the regulator. "

____ A COUPLE of problems (coming-up) with that ! ...
__ First-off, when you state: "positive terminals of the regulator", certainly you must RATHER-instead ACTUALLY-mean the 'AC.input-terminals' of the 'rectifier', RIGHT ?


" - Parallel, as simple as that, right? "

____ That's indeed in 'parallel' , BUT-NOT so simply ! ... While you then sort-of have the two stator-windings parallel-arranged in a 'PHYSICAL-manor', you then ALSO have them connected 'electrically' in a SERIES-chain, (since you've then connected those two power-circuits head-to-butt & butt-to-head, [instead of head-to-head & butt-to-butt] !) !



" Well... Wired this way, the system produces no power... "

____ Well that's NO-wonder ! ...
The ALTERNATOR-itself is then certainly still producing power ! _ BUT you then have it's two power-circuits directly SHORT-circuited to each-other !! _ So the alt.stator-itself is then it's-OWN one-&-only load !
So of-course there's then no reason for any power to be left to enter-into your regulator-unit !



" Next, I disconnected just the black wire, so as to disconnect one of the series of coils, and the system supplies power in this configuration, with just one series of coils connected! "

____ Right,, cuz that way, you've then opened-up & eliminated the (major !) short-circuit, thus-then leaving ONE of the power-circuits to enter-into your R.unit !



" Connected this way the charging system acts predictable, in that the headlamp gets brighter as RPM's go up, and the voltage regulator is supplying voltage to the battery as the RPM's increase. "

____ Right, just as ought-to be expected, (even-though you're then only feeding your charging-system with just half* of the alternator's possible power-output) !
(* If your 6 power-coils are still dual-wound as stock-Ducati, THEN that "half" is-NOT 50% ! _ As the mutual-induction effect between the two alt.power-windings will dampen power-output, depending-on actual-load & RPM !! _ So in the case of full-wave rectification, use of only-ONE of the power-circuits will then produce OVER 50%, of both together !)



" So now I'm second guessing what I believed is the way to connect the alternator in parallel. "

____ Good-thing too ! _ You should've done-so sooner. ...
Cuz even if you had CORRECTLY-arranged the two stator-circuits in true/complete parallel-configuration 'ELECTRICALLY', you'd still be wasting some power within the alt.stator-itself ! ...
Because since your two stator-windings didn't have absolutely-IDENTICAL ohm-readings, ONE will see the other as a 'LOAD', (and-THUS waste some power [through whichever stator-circuit has the least impedance] !) !
And you really DON'T-want ANY of the power produced by the strongest power-winding, to-be able to have any chance to see the weaker-one as a partial-load (and-thus cancel-out an equal-amount of power from the weaker alt.winding, or even possibly become wasted as additional heat) !



" Is it as easy as paring up the wires from the series of coils onto the two positive terminals on the regulator. "

____ Well, that would've helped somewhat but,, NO, not-really. _ (As the two stator-windings are-not EXACTLY-matched [as it seems they ought-to be].)
(And once-AGAIN, the R.unit's terminals which the alternator-outputs are supposed to-be connected-to, are-NOT "positive terminals", (but rather 'AC.in' [or marked with '~' ] ) !


" Am I missing something obvious here? "

____ I'm afraid-SO. ...
IF it were-ever actually-OK to connect BOTH stator-circuits only-to just-ONE bridge-rectifier,, then why-bother to connect-up TWO-pairs of wire-leads to the stator for routing-outside and-THEN become connected-up together EXTERNALLY,, when (in such case), that paired-connection COULD've instead been done internally at the stator and then routed-outward (to the rectifier) with JUST ONE-pair of common wire-leads ! ?? _ THAT simplified-practice is just not professionally-done,, so clearly it's not good-practice to directly-connect together two separate power-sources to one charging-system, without first isolating the power-sources from one-another.
__ So it doesn't make much sense to connect BOTH pairs of alt.wire-leads to the very-SAME bridge-rectifier, (even if THAT wasn't a problem of it's own) !



" Looking for ideas, before I proceed with swapping wires around, "

____ You should just try-out only one power-circuit at a time, to find-out whether that provides enough charging-juice to suit your needs. _ And if nether-one alone is sufficient, then connect-up a SECOND bridge-rectifier for the second power-circuit.
__ OR, you could also try-out a dual half-wave rectifier (like from a pre-1975 L-twin), and possibly discover that THAT charging-system arrangement suits your needs, (by properly taking advantage of Ducati's mutual-induction circuits).
__ Do you know the total-resistance of your combined load-system ?



____ BTW Bruce, wasn't it YOU who once began a rewind-job on a 6-pole stator-core ?



Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[ecurbruce]

Hey Bill,
Thanks for responding, yea that was supposed to be Mike's "E" scheme, but after reading all of those 36 pages, I still got it wrong. Go figure.... I wired that last summer, and this is the first I've had it running reliably enough to do any testing.
I just wanted to see what Bob has to say 'bout it!

Bob said;
____ First-off, since you knew where your original-thread could be found, I'm left to wonder what you reasoning was for starting ANOTHER thread concerning your modified-alternator ??

Well, I thought about that, but this is less about alternator modification and more about system wiring. Do you think I should go back and attach this to the old thread?

____ Can you post a pic of your R-R.unit ? _ Do you KNOW whether it includes a F-W.rectifier ?
____ If the unit includes a rectifier, then the post-pins/terminals that are meant-to connect to an alternator are NOT "positive" I ... They're actually 'AC.inputs'.

Yes, my terminology about the pins was incorrect, I understand that they are AC inputs. I'll send a photo of the regulator.
I have the name of the manufacturer somewhere, I'll forward you that later...(it's not in front of me at the moment).

____ Your stated "5 ohms" & "4 ohms" seems rather high to me. _ So did you actually mean '.5' & '.4' ohms ?

Yea, oops, forgot the decimal point! I think I remember that when the coils were all connected in parallel to the reg., the resistance of the alt. was around .2 ohms. I'll verify that later.

____ Did you have the two stator-circuits connected in 'series' before ?

No, this is the first attempt, as I said , I created this last summer, this is just the first time I've had to test the system with a dependable running engine. I have put off reporting any of this until I could test it to see if it would function at all.

__ I'm wondering exactly-why you have come to choose to arrange the two stator-circuits in 'parallel' ? _ Is it because you've read & understood my postings within the thread about the related magazine-article ?

Bob, I have to say I enjoyed reading your write-up about the magazine article, and had considered a couple of times of responding in agreement about what you had to say about parallel connection,,,, but, no, I've had parallel connection in my head for this project from the beginning. You'll remember that when we were doing all of the research with Bill Corey and MotoMike, that I was always pushing towards parallel and "Mike's E scheme". It came from dissecting a few automotive alternators and exploring what makes them "tick".

____ That's indeed in 'parallel' , BUT-NOT so simply ! ... While you then sort-of have the two stator-windings parallel-arranged in a 'PHYSICAL-manor', you then ALSO have them connected 'electrically' in a SERIES-chain, (since you've then connected those two power-circuits head-to-butt & butt-to-head, [instead of head-to-head & butt-to-butt] !) !
Cuz even if you had CORRECTLY-arranged the two stator-circuits in true/complete parallel-configuration 'ELECTRICALLY', you'd still be wasting some power within the alt.stator-itself ! ...
Because since your two stator-windings didn't have IDENTICAL ohm-readings, ONE will see the other as a 'LOAD', (and-THUS waste some power [through whichever stator-circuit has the least impedance] !) !

So still, I think I will swap the red and green wires and re-test for system voltage, then I'll explore multiple rectifiers.

____ BTW Bruce, wasn't it YOU who once began a rewind-job on a 6-pole stator-core ?

No, we talked about doing a rewind, but it was JB Collier who actually rewound one and reported about it.

__ OR, you could also try-out a dual half-wave rectifier (like from a pre-1975 L-twin), and possibly discover that THAT charging-system arrangement suits your needs, (by properly taking advantage of Ducati's mutual-induction circuits).

(You-Keep-Adding-Stuf-Every-Time-I-Look-:)
So does that rectifier have a place for four wires?

Bruce

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= ecurbruce ...
" Well, I thought about that, but this is less about alternator modification and more about system wiring. Do you think I should go back and attach this to the old thread? "

____ No, not really... as I agree that there's no-need to have this-thread's intended topic combined with your old-thread, (especially if your other thread already has too-many pages).
However I think a link to it would be quite-reasonable. - (I'll add such links soon.) _ Do you know of any particular pages/posts within that thread which would be most logical to link directly-to ?
UPDATE: - Here's a link to Bruce's old/related thread... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=593



" I'll send a photo of the regulator. "

____ Please post it when you next can.



" I think I remember that when the coils were all connected in parallel to the reg., the resistance of the alt. was around .2 ohms. "

____ That would be about what's expected for the combined-total 'resistance' of your two winding-circuits in parallel together. _ But with the (full-wave) interplay of induction-fields directly between the two windings,, then as load & RPM increase, 'impedance' will then well overshadow the mere 'resistance' ! _ So therefore the added power available from the use of BOTH stator-windings together (in parallel) will-not be fully twice as strong as using only one alone.



" I have to say I enjoyed reading your write-up about the magazine article, and had considered a couple of times of responding in agreement about what you had to say about parallel connection,,,, "

____ Glad to hear that,, as I was afraid I had been wasting my time explaining such, since the involved advanced-reasoning is-not commonly-understood (even by those few here who're fairly-well educated with the std.basics of electricity).



" I've had parallel connection in my head for this project from the beginning. You'll remember that when we were doing all of the research with Bill Corey and MotoMike, that I was always pushing towards parallel and "Mike's E scheme". "

____ While I do recall NOW, I had forgotten about your developed-dedication to the parallel-configuration, and naturally had assumed that you once/ORIGINALLY were likely one of those (in the overwhelming majority) who always think the same (misleading!) 'basics' much-as the writer of the mag.article -(that 6+6v must = 12v -bs.), and-so HAD expected to go-with the (more commonly-done) 'SERIES' arrangement, (back when you very-FIRST got-into modifying your alt.stator, [before your first-ever post] ).
(I'm glad to learn that at-least YOU seem to have been lifted-out of the murk of high-school 'basics' !)
__ And also, yes I do indeed (fairly-well) recall YOUR over-enthusiasm for the (so-labeled) 'scheme-E' that MotoMike hastily came-up with for Bill to try-out, (as well as my feeble-attempt to discourage any consideration of actually adopting that rather bare circuit-arrangement into any permanent-use).
I'm fairly-sure that Mike thought of that-circuit with the presumption of it being rather-naturally equally-balanced. _ But that CAN'T actually be counted-on !
IF both alt.power-windings were actually EQUALLY-matched, THEN it would be no-problem to directly-combine them-both together in that bare-fashion.



" I think I will swap the red and green wires and re-test for system voltage, "

____ But I thought that the red-wire and the green-wire were of DIFFERENT winding-circuits !? ...
Before, you had one of the two windings electrically upside-down with the other,, so instead of pairing-up black&white and-also green&red (in parallel together, as before),, you should next try pairing black-with-red and-also white-with-green, so as to only-change the arrangement of just-ONE circuit,, right !? _ (Cuz otherwise,, if you flip-around BOTH circuits, you'd then quite-certainly be right-back in the SAME-boat once-again, as before !)
__ THAT directly-paired arrangement should be okay as a test, (as you've already put your alternator through a MUCH-more taskfull hardship [with your DIRECT-short hook-up test]!). _ But as a permanent-arrangement,, it would be somewhat inefficient, without isolating the two power-windings from one-another.



" then I'll explore multiple rectifiers. "

____ You'd just need two bridge-rectifiers,, one of which ought-to be within your regulator-unit, (I gather !?). _ That way, you can then continue to keep the two power-windings isolated (from each-other's internal-circuit).
__ But don't overlook that you may be digging-up more power than your load-system may require.
What is the wattage-consumption/rating of your intended headlight ?



" we talked about doing a rewind, but it was JB Collier who actually rewound one and reported about it. "

____ I had-NOT gotten you two guys' alt.projects confused at all, (as I well recall the different-approaches [for alt.modification] that you each took).
__ My related-inquiry was-not concerning a completed rewind-job, but rather-actually a 6-pole stator-core with it's power-coils stripped of wire-windings, with the INTENT of being rewound.
So wasn't that YOU,, who had done-so, with such intent ?



" So does that rectifier have a place for four wires? "

____ The w-c.type/L-twin R-R.unit has one-input for each (neg)-alt.pole, but like the w-c.setup, combines the opposite/(pos)-alt.poles into a 'common'/red-circuit.
So that simply means you'd have-to combine YOUR red & green wire-leads together, to be connected to that R-R.unit's red/common-terminal. _ (Which is obviously easy-enough !)




" (You-Keep-Adding-Stuf-Every-Time-I-Look-:) "

____ Yes, that's bound to happen whenever my post hasn't yet been signed-off with 'DCT-Bob' . ...
__ When I do a post, I can't type as fast as thoughts occur to me, and before I can get them all typed-down, I've forgotten some of them until the NEXT-time I read my post,, and then, I realize that some additional elaboration is called-for also,
so I then add-in that, also as well.
____ I've noticed that even-though your post was posted AFTER I had last so-edited my-post,, you still, (like Harvey), have somehow been able to quote my PREVIOUS post-version's obsolete-wording (from BEFORE my latest edit-job).
While doing that MAY be okay, it OUGHT-not ever happen.



Enlightened-Cheers,
D.Bob

[ecurbruce]

image.jpg

This is my regulator, not much to see, three pins, center one is battery, AC in- on each side.
You can see it here,
http://www.emsglobaldirect.com/product. ... ductid=558

The selling point for me is that it's intended for an alternator with permanent magnets.
It's used on Kohler and other small engines.
Bruce

[wcorey]

Not familiar with the r/r your using but for about the same $ you'd do better with a Shindengen mosfet 'fh00' type.
Has become a standard upgrade/conversion for many applications, new and old.
Really high output with the 'E' scheme and runs very cool.
Was getting 70+ watts with it and the 6 coil stator (or was that actually with only four coils?!) at 3450 rpm and only 48w with a standard bridge rectifier.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/052-KAWASAKI-ZX ... 30&vxp=mtr

Located in Florida too...


IIRC two (or three) winding sets in parallel with both outputs to a single rectifier yielded about the same
output as each winding set going to separate rec's with their outputs combined.

When a battery and/or caps were added to the circuit (using a bridge type rec), the output advantage of
the 'E' scheme was diminished considerably as compared to some of the more conventional schemes.
BUT only the 'E' (and a few other odd ones) was able to capitalize on whatever it is the mosfet r/r does to boost output.

" I think I will swap the red and green wires and re-test for system voltage, "

That will indeed result in the 'E' scheme you had intended to use.
In theory the mismatch of resistance between the winding sets will result in some level of inefficiency
but in practice those negative results were inconsequential.

It was a smart/fortunate decision that you brought all four wires out...

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= ecurbruce ...
" This is my regulator,
You can see it here, "

____ Thanks for the pic !
Your R-R.unit seems to be fairly suitable.
__ Let us know how your next test comes-out, (especially with just the "red & green" wires swapped !).

____ I'm hoping you still yet intend to respond to my last post.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Bill, it's been too long without any post-contributions from you !
__ (MotoMike has been much-missed as well !)



[quote= wcorey ...
" for about the same $ you'd do better with a Shindengen mosfet 'fh00' type. "

____ While I can't confirm that, I'd prefer to choose Bill's recommendation (even for a few bucks more).



" Was getting 70+ watts with it
at 3450 rpm and only 48w with a standard bridge rectifier. "

____ It seems that you're claiming that while a good-working ordinary/bare F-W.bridge-rectifier alone, will yield 48-watts of output,, the very-same AC.level inputted into the Shindengen-unit, somehow provides at-least "70" watts output !?
__ I must-not correctly understand what you must've actually meant to convey, because I couldn't believe such results even if I saw it for myself, (cuz a properly working & connected bridge-rectifier's output could-not possibly be actually surpassed, [as ANY kind of regulator-circuit could ONLY match it's output, at BEST] !).
So with such uncorrelated inconsistency, at-least ONE of those test-results is certainly suspect !



" two
winding sets in parallel with both outputs to a single rectifier yielded about the same
output as each winding set going to separate rec's with their outputs combined. "

____ No-problem believing that, (with the key-word being "about" ).



" When a battery and/or caps were added to the circuit (using a bridge type rec), the output advantage of the 'E' scheme was diminished considerably as compared to some of the more conventional schemes. "

____ That surely seems to be something that ought-to be investigated into. _ (As I don't OBVIOUSLY-see how such [normally operating] components normally-connected to the load-circuit, could possibly cause such results.) _ I suppose a battery could've contributed to the two power-circuits then being more-apt to see each-other as additional 'load'.



" BUT only the 'E' (and a few other odd ones) was able to capitalize on whatever it is the mosfet r/r does to boost output. "

____ I'm unaware/unfamiliar with exactly how those regulator-circuits work but, to ACTUALLY "boost" power-output, (compared to straight rectification), would be absolute MAGIC in my-book !
Perhaps the involved circuity somehow 'fools' the particularly employed test-meters ? - (I've yet to find & use a 'digital-readout' type meter that I can trust as well as the old/straight analog-type meters ! _ [As I've found that many digital-meters don't correctly handle complex simi-conductor circuits and-also yield consistent/trustworthy readouts.] )
__ On the other-hand, I may be misunderstanding exactly what you really mean by: "boost" output !?

I think I will swap the red and green wires and re-test for system voltage,

" That will indeed result in the 'E' scheme you had intended to use. "

____ It seems we need to see THAT arrangement-change drawn-out in a dual-diagram, (in order for it to make any-SENSE, to ME) !
Cuz as I understand Bruce's established wire-arrangement,, swapping both the red AND green wires around, would make NO-difference !
ONLY ONE of the two power-circuits needs to be flipped-around (to avoid the short-circuit chain, and rather put them in parallel [electrically] ) !
If either of you guys still think I'M the one who's got it wrong, then I'll draw-up a diagram for getting it all correctly straightened-out.



" In theory the mismatch of resistance between the winding sets will result in some level of inefficiency
but in practice those negative results were inconsequential. "

____ All indeed-so ! _ (I had only pointed-out the fact because I-myself deplore ANY waste !)
__ The inefficiency of the non-isolated/direct-connection state between the two power/winding-circuits will vary according to the intended-load amount. ...
When the system-load is great and it's resistance dips close to being the same or lower than the impedance of the stator-windings, THEN any slight mismatch between those two power-circuits is rendered relatively inconsequential, (as the stronger power-circuit then simply makes life easier for the weaker-one, [as any small difference in power-output between the two, is split-up & half given to the weaker-circuit rather than being delivered to the-load, (in other-words, that difference is pretty-much 'cancelled-out' instead of being available for the-load)] ).
However whenever the load-system is reduced (as when the headlight is off), THEN any mismatch between the power-windings comes MUCH further into play and the (resulted) added load condition bleeds & wastes some noteworthly-measurable amount of power (released as alt-stator heat !) !



" It was a smart/fortunate decision that you brought all four wires out... "

____ Indeed so ! _ (Just as I've always said & done !)



____ Glad to find-out that it seems you haven't lost any of your related wits, Bill !



Enlightening-Cheers,
-Bob

[wcorey]

Hi Bob,

I'm not going to attempt to answer your inquiries just yet as you will most likely add substantially
more to your current post after I reply (as you are prone to do) and I'll then have to go back and do likewise.

And I'm more than a little apprehensive about the can 'o worms and subsequent time drain this line of questioning can open up.
None of this reached a real conclusion and many aspects went unanswered, I still have misgivings about putting so much effort into it and abandoning ship leaving so many loose ends. I just didn't have the capacity to conclude it on my own and you guys were long out 'o there by then.

I still have the test setup...

Much of what you ask here was covered in detail back when, some by you-yourself even.
I finally have reason to say "how quickly you forget" back at you, lol.

As I don't immediately recall a lot of the details of that particular thread/epic and will have to go back and find/re-read the applicable info,
it will be more efficient if YOU also go back and do some reading, Toward the end of that project I was trying to organize/distill things a bit so created a rough index of test results and what page they resided on to make things easier. I can easily point you in the general direction of applicable data/discussion, at least to a particular page.

Suggested reading for now would be some of page 28-29 (assuming you're formatted for 10 posts per page) and the last couple posts on 36.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=556&hilit=alternator+modifications&start=280

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=556&hilit=alternator+modifications&start=350