Decoding the wide case regulator's connections

[JimF]

I am not sure what you are trying to convey to me. That I not ground the unit to the frame?

Often times the unit is attached to the frame not only to use the frame as an electrical conductor but also a thermal conduit for cooling.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Sorry, I had not noticed that a new-page had been started last-night (and-so have remained on the 1st.page, [until now]).
____ My long reply-posts could-not 'keep-up' with your short-ones ! _ So it seems that you've read them before they were finished and moved-on without noting ALL their content. _ So you SHOULD-HAVE rechecked them each time you posted one of your newer-posts (so that you didn't get 'jumped-ahead' further each time) !
__ Anyhow, recheck all my posts on the previous-page to see what-all you missed (during our rather RUSHED postings-exchange period last-night).


[quote= JimF ...
" I am not sure what you are trying to convey to me. That I not ground the unit to the frame? "

____ Yes but, not just the R-R.unit's DC.circuiting*, but also not 'ground' your LED.circuits, EITHER,, (* because your lighting-coil is already [unavoidably] grounded !) !


" Often times the unit is attached to the frame not only to use the frame as an electrical conductor but also a thermal conduit for cooling. "

____ Cooling should-not be much of an issue with your single power-coil,, but even-so, most-all aftermarket F-W.R-R.units don't make-use of their casings to conduct either DC.pole (so that they could be used for EITHER neg OR pos.ground systems) !
__ That MITY MAX unit has a pair of green-wires (for the AC.input), and 1-red & 1-black wire-leads, so it's case-housing should-not have to be 'grounded' !
Even-though it doesn't really matter,, what made you think that it was pos.grounded, anyhow ?


Tillater,
DCT-Bob

[JimF]

This is what makes me think it is a postive ground:

http://www.britcycle.com/Manuals/332104Inst0504.pdf


Looking for the links you previously posted is like looking for a needle in a haystack; I typed "regulator" into my search window and came up with 38 pages of search results, each page containing a plethora of posts.

That being said, it looks to me like you recommend the Tympanium single phase 12V unit:

http://www.britcycle.com/Manuals/TympaniumInst.pdf


Is that correct?


I hope you will tell me if this is the unit I should be ordering as I want to order one and get it in transit as soon as possible.


I have printed out this entire exchange. I need to re-read it all and then I will post again.


Thanks,

Jim

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= JimF ...
" This is what makes me think it is a postive ground: "

____ Both your posted links stall-up my browser and keep it tar-baby stuck ! _ (After a half-hour I had no choice but to unplug my PC & reboot.)
So I could-not get either of those linked-pages to load !
__ I suspect that what you had probably found, was a page that just happened to show just ONE optional connection-possibility.



" Looking for the links you previously posted is like looking for a needle in a haystack; I typed "regulator" into my search window and came up with 38 pages of search results, each page containing a plethora of posts. "

____ Now you know what we-all have-to go-through whenever doing a search here at this-site !
__ Anyhow, it seems that you must skim-through posts,, cuz for one-thing, you should've already realized that the particular links I had set-up for YOU to fine & note, were in your 'LED headlight again' thread ! - (On page-1, post-8, the first/top-most link [of 4 total],, leads-to a past thread-post which has it's-own links... of-which the 3rd.link [of 4 total] leads to an eBay-listing which shows the particular R-R.unit that you ought to be interested-in [for this latest circuit-arrangement suggestion].)
That should-not have been overlooked & forgotten by you already (unless you're a blatant skim-reader).
__ That 'Sparx' brand unit -(part# SPX 023), (as I've been led to believe), is the UPDATED-version of the old MityMax-unit, and-so ought-to work at-least as well for your-application !
If you now want that particular model over an old MityMax-unit, then it seems you'll have-to look elsewhere for one, (now). _ As the ONLY active-listing for the-like that I was able to find on eBay TODAY, was THIS-listing... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Working-Mity-Ma ... 4561443%26 .
But in addition, I also found ANOTHER (expired-listing) of the SPX023-units listed by the SAME-seller as the one I had already provided a link to (in the older-thread)... http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIUMPH-NORTON- ... 7675.l2557 , so it seems that that-seller probably didn't actually run-out of those units, but rather-instead just chose to stop listing them, and-so probably could be contacted to sell one of the units 'one-off' !?
__ However I did find a couple of listings for the cheaper-model Sparx R-R.unit that's apparently WITHOUT an internal capacitor ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-BSA-reg ... a3&vxp=mtr ; http://www.ebay.com/itm/17-109-TRIUMPH- ... cb&vxp=mtr .
I wouldn't recommend that model though-however, because the outputted p.DC would be unfiltered, (but you could add a common [thumb-sized] 220uf.cap which would be sufficient for such a light-load,, [the cap.size inside the R-R.unit is more-like 3k.uf] ).
__ Also, those two (non-023) Sparx-models are no-better than the more commonly-available Tympanium-brand R-R.units that can rather easily be had for lower prices.
Here's a couple of eBay links to such available units... http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=SP ... r&_sacat=0 ; http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Ty ... r&_sacat=0



" it looks to me like you recommend the Tympanium single phase 12V unit: "

____ I don't understand how you got THAT-idea ! _ As I don't think I've done anything (related to YOUR thread-posts) to suggest THAT !
__ However I have installed more Tympanium-units (than MityMax-units), because THOSE R-R.units were about half the price [from JC.Whitney, in Chicago], and THEY work-well, as well - (but rather for jobs that retained the battery) !
__ I'd suggest that Boyer R-R.unit (with cap) which YOU-yourself found, before one of the rather plain/ordinary Tympanium-units, for your LED.project.


" Is that correct? "

____ Not-REALLY... But whatever it actually is that you're referring-to, may work. (?)
What is IT ?



" I hope you will tell me if this is the unit I should be ordering as I want to order one and get it in transit as soon as possible. "

____ The only R-R.units that I most recommend are the old MityMax-units (from the late-70s), and their modern-counterpart, the top-line (single-phase) Sparx-model -(#023).
__ Can anybody suggest a suitable source-outlet for Jim to search for such ?
UPDATE - I found these 3-listings for SPX023-units* on the-net... http://www.chopcult.com/brainface/classifieds/2889/ ;
http://www.tri-corengland.com/acatalog/ ... PX023.html ;
http://www.triumph650.com/servlet/the-1 ... ARX/Detail
(* See a pic of such a unit, posted below.)



" I have printed out this entire exchange. I need to re-read it all and then I will post again. "

____ Okay-then, good ! _ Perhaps that-way, you then won't 'skim' through it all, (as it seems you must regularly do).


Done-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Jim, have you decided on a final-choice for a R-R.unit to actually purchase for your LED.project yet ?



____ As anyone who has read-through this thread can gather, it seems that you don't have the spare-time to post ALL your related thoughts so as to keep yourself completely/clearly conveyed, (at-least during our recent rushed post-exchange).
__ I-myself always 'quote' the particular wording which I'm responding-to, so as to help keep the reader 'on-track',, but YOU've failed to take-advantage of that helpful guidance. _ And without such guidance assistance, your readers are then left to assume (or even GUESS) whatever your chosen wording is specifically pertaining-to.
And from our rushed post-exchange (with my-own posts getting posted & read without being finished with my more elaborated wording), it seems that at-least one of us wasn't fully on-track with the other's train-of-thought. ...
__ So anyhow, to further help clear-up what was what,, after I had finished my posted-statement: "____ Jim, has it not yet occurred to you that you could use most-any Full-Wave.R-R.unit with your grounded lighting-coil, by not allowing your LED.light-circuits to become grounded at any point !?" , the (rather vague) first-line in your next-post then SIMPLY-stated:

Any recommendations?

So I was then left-to-assume that you must've correctly-understood & realized the required unconventional/ungrounded-circuit, and-so then had simply-asked what R-R.unit I'd recommend for using with that-circuit cure/fix (for solving your circuiting-issue [due-to your grounded lighting-coil dilemma] ) !
BUT that you shortly-afterwords became concerned about any R-R.unit being pos.grounded, THEN left me WONDERING exactly what had happened for why we both actually weren't realizing the very-same-thing. _ So-then, I didn't know which of us must've misunderstood the intended-jest of the other's posted-wording ! _ (And-so I didn't know whether to think you may've 'skim-read' my statement, or what !)
So then, I had to begin working to make MORE-clear how you could possibly make-use of a full-wave rectifier with your (pre)-grounded lighting-coil, AFTER I had-been inadvertently-allowed to assume that you had already basically understood (before-hand) !
__ And all-that seems to be what's responsible for how we've gotten to where we've arrived at.


____ Anyhow, considering that you seem-to wish-to reject the SIMPLEST & most-obvious sure-fix for holding-down alt.power-coil power/voltage to your LED.circuits,, it seems that the next-simplest method is to use a full-wave rect.circuit with BOTH of it's output-leads kept isolated -(UNgrounded) ALL-THE-WAY to and BACK from the (also totally-isolated) LED.circuitS -(of-which should be fairly-easy to accomplish).
__ THIS/unconventional circuit-arrangement should-be quite-easy to become clearly-conceived,, once an alternate-mindset to avoid the use of 'ground' for the common-DC.circuit, is finally fully-grasped ! _ (Cuz after-all, the frame/ground is [electrically] nothing-more than just one big common-conductor quite the same as a 'common rail-connection' or even just a 'common wire-lead', and thusly does-NOT really-need to be taken-advantage-of !)
So it ought-to be easily realized that an added-length of extra wire can certainly take-the-place of 'ground' !
__ After you know for-sure that you wish to go this-route to solve your-issue, then I'll go-ahead & go-over all the related electrical-connections required.
__ If you don't-really like the idea of running the required extra-length of wiring for completing the (ungrounded) DC.circuits,, then instead, do you have any source of rather thin dual-conductor/coaxial-wire, for the job of feeding your LED.lights (from the R-R.unit) ?
Also, do you employ a light-switch, or simply allow the lights to remain-on (whenever the engine is running) ?


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[JimF]

Just to put an end to this thread...

I was going to purchase a 6-volt Mity Max product with the internal capacitor, but it was proving difficult to find and looked to be weighing in at over a hundred US dollars or perhaps far more.

A friend with a Norton had purchased a 12-volt single phase Podtronics 1-P and never installed it as he solved his problem elsewhere. He offered it to me for $35.

I checked my wiring and I had been using the internally grounded coil to power the ignition system. I left that alone.

The winding with two wires available had been powering my lighting system, albeit with one of the two wires attached to the frame.

I disconnected the wire going to the frame and now had two leads from opposite ends of one winding. I fed this into the Podtronics and hung a large cap on the output.

I got a rock solid 14.5 volts DC out.

I revved the engine; again it was rock solid 14.5 volts DC throughout my RPM range proving the output was indeed regulated (does not waver with engine RPM) as well as rectified (DC voltage and not AC voltage.)

Had I bought a Podtronics I might have opted for the 6-volt version just like I would have the Mity Max, but my LEDs work at either voltage and since they are the only things on the DC it was a "don't care" type of thing.

My only insecurity was whether the "6-volt" alternator had the voltage amplitude needed to create 12-volts, but since I was reasonably sure that it was high amplitude voltage that fried my first set of LEDs when I tried to run them on simple un-regulated power that was half-wave rectified (a.k.a. pulsed-DC), it stood to reason that I would get some reasonable voltage out of the Podtronics. After all, I was really only looking for rectification and regulation, the LEDs I use will function from 4 volts to 18 volts.

Also, in retrospect, it was a good thing that I ended up with a 12-volt unit as with 12-volts I can run some low-power accessory like a GPS if I wanted to.


So to put a fancy bow on this package and call it really done and before anyone decides to follow my path so they can run a heated vest and heated grips at 12-volts DC on their Ducati single, let me make a fairly accurate summary of what you can expect.

I know this assumption is incorrect, but assuming that we split the two alternator wingdings down the middle with respect to power then each of the two wingdings would deliver 20-watts. Another wrong assumption is that the 40-watt alternator is indeed limited to 40-watts, but for wrapping this up let's assume it is.

So with 20 watts heading into the Podtronics regulator/rectifier, and wrongly assuming there is no power loss in the Podtronics, I have 1.66 amps of 12 volts DC available. (Amps times voltage equals power.)

My lighting consumes 6-watts (0.5 amps) in the front and 6-watts in the back (but only when the brake is applied so that is 0.5 amps).


Following this line of reasoning I should have 0.66 amps or 8-watts of 12 volts DC power to run another device.


Jim