New 250 mk3 Owner

[Glawster]

Hi Everyone – new Ducati Single owner here.
I registered as it looks like this is the most active Ducati Singles forum so I hope to get lots of good advice and tips!

Just to introduce myself, I’m from Cheltenham, UK, and I recently returned to biking with a Ducati GT1000 which I really like. Just the thing for a 55 year old whose back can quite make the clip ons any longer. Anyway, I fancied getting myself a single as I had one when I was 18 – a 1958 200 Elite. That bike taught me a huge amount about motorcycle mechanics and bought and sold it for £100, jellymould tank and all!

I was looking for a regular, orginal mk3 and I found what seems to me to be quite an unusual model. In Mick Walker’s book it would be described as a “mk 3 Touring” and I believe only a few 450s were brought into the UK. My bike is a 250, first registered in Italy and imported to UK in 1986. The last owner had it since 1994. He had the engine rebuilt by Baines and the paintwork resprayed, but that’s about it. The bike is completely original even down to having a bicycle style pump fitted. The tiny panniers are Ducati originals.

Superfiically it’s quite tidy, but actually it needs cosmetic refurbishment – so 2 weeks into ownership it’s stripped to the last nut and bolt (engine aside). Over the next few weeks my plan is…
o Frame, swing arm, pannier frames, headlight shell etc (everything black) powder coated
o Chrome parts re-chromed
o Wheels rebuild with steel rims (not alloy originals) and stainless spokes
o Recover seat.
o Polish all alloy parts.
o New wiring loom
Maybe later I’ll change to 12v electrics and electronic ignition.
On the engine I really wanted to get the sand castings cleaned but I don’t want to split the engine as it seems to be running well. I’ll polish the outer casing and leave it at that.

I’m happy to hear any advice from you all. I’d also be really pleased to hear from anyone who has the same model and knows more about this particular mk3 model’s history.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" new Ducati Single owner here. "

____ Welcome amongst us, fellow Duke-owner !



" it looks like this is the most active Ducati Singles forum "

____ Indeed as it ought to be, since most of us wish to relegate this DUCATI-w.site only to just Ducati-Single models.



" I was looking for a regular, orginal mk3 and I found what seems to me to be quite an unusual model. In Mick Walker’s book it would be described as a “mk 3 Touring” "

____ I've never seen a 250Mark-3 with that style of fuel-tank. _ What model-year is your Duke, 1974 ?
Is it's front-wheel a 19 or 18 inch version ?



" I’d also be really pleased to hear from anyone who has the same model and knows more about this particular mk3 model’s history. "

____ You may have the newest 250-Duke of any member here...
What's it's motor-number ?


____ I've enlarged your picture for further possible close-up viewing of various details.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob

[Glawster]

Hi Bob,
Both wheels are 18 inch
It was first registered in 1972 in Italy
The engine ID is DM250M3 109389

Thanks for your interest - I have seen a few pictures of this model with the same tank, but only a few. And the model is briefly mentioned in Mick Walkers Ducati buyer's guide. Only the 450 was imported to the UK and perhaps none at all to the USA?

[Ventodue]

Sweet! I'm fairly sure that what you have is the version of the Mark 3 normally designated as a 'T' or a 'TS' (depending on what cam it has).

EDIT: No, sorry, I think I'm wrong in giving it this moniker . Looking again thru Massimo Clarke's Scrambler, Desmo e Mark 3, it seems more likely that what you have is the regular 1971-72 version of the Mark 3. The 'T/TS' version had a shorter and more rounded tank than the regular version, a deeply valanced front mudguard and 12 volt electrics.

There is a photo of a bike of your style - tank, seat, front guard - on page 98 of Mick's Ducati Singles. In this case, it's a 1972 450.

Anyways, have look at the thread here. While the bikes featured have the heavily valanced front mudguard and, I think,the more rounded tank - certainly the red one - they do seem to have the same panniers as yours

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1197

Certainly unusual - rare, even. I'm not surprised to hear yours came in from Italy. I don't think they were much exported, if at all (possibly a few to France, probably fitted with the smaller 239cc engine).

If Geoff Baines has breathed on yours, it should go well - like a rocket, even!

Please let Robert Miller have the engine and frame mumbers - he keeps a register which you can view at http://www.bevelheaven.com/, data index, Ducati Engine/Frame # List. E-mail robertmiller2@aapt.net.au.

Ciao

Craig

[Ventodue]

P.s Here's a photo of a 450 version of yours which was apparently sold at the auction of the Salterelli collection last year ...



P.p.s Ha! Confirmation! Thanks to Tony Leone, who is on this Forum and was at the auction, you can see that very bike on his video here. Thanks Tony!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gtviZKl ... e=youtu.be

P.p.s ( I'll stop doing this .. eventually )

More still shots here. It sold for €5.265.

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1049304

[Glawster]

Many thanks for all the good information!
That "Touring" with the mudguards really is a pig isn't it? An example of how to turn a lightweight elegant motorcycle faithful to the Ducati brand into something unspeakable just by changing the mudguards!
I saw the catalogue for the Monaco auction - probably you went to it being a local? Actually I managed to pay about 30% less for my bike - and probably more if there were auction buyers fees involved. OK, that's a 450, but I think mine's in better condition. Anyway it makes me feel a bit better about the money I'm spending on the refurbishment.
Baines did some work on the engine in about 1996, but no tuning. I think it's in a pretty soft state of tune - which is OK by me if it means better reliability. It's only done about 3,000km since then.

Regarding Fuel - the previous owner runs it on Avgas. I'm assuming the valve seats are original so I guess I need to use some kind of additive if I use regular UK 95 Unleaded?

Please see attached another photo. You'll see that despite the 6v electrics it has indicators. The switch (on the right bar) looks very authentic but the front indicators are Japanese. I don't think I ever saw a Ducati single with indicators and I assume these are not original? I think they will be binned, but unfortunately the back ones are built into the panniers.

[Single duck]

Hi,
Sweet Duck! Nice buy.
If you ever have the chance to get some photos with the panniers removed (to expose the supporting framework) I'd appreciate a few pics and dimensions; I'm minded to have a similar pannier setup on a Scrambler I have.
Regarding the need for fuel additives - might it not be informative to speak to the Baines bros regardiong the work undertaken on your engine? Good chance they have records going back to that time.
many thanks.

[Ventodue]

That "Touring" with the mudguards really is a pig isn't it?

Yeh, but owning would be a laf, if only to hack off the Ducati Purists ... . Didn't go to the auction, unfortunately - only found out about it afterwards. Prolly just as well - otherwise I might have been tempted by the Pantah that went for not a great deal.

Baines did some work on the engine in about 1996, but no tuning. I think it's in a pretty soft state of tune - which is OK by me if it means better reliability. It's only done about 3,000km since then.

Regarding fuel - the previous owner runs it on Avgas. I'm assuming the valve seats are original so I guess I need to use some kind of additive if I use regular UK 95 Unleaded?

I was only teasing you about what Geoff might have done when no-one was looking (altho' I still reckon you never know ... ). But I bet the engine runs well!

As to octane rating - well, I wouldn't worry. The lead in leaded fuel was there:
1. To boost octane in order to avoid pinking (= pre-ignition) in high compression engines. So that doesn't really apply to your (relatively) humble 250 ...

2. To reduce wear caused by metal-to-metal contact, typically in top end components such as valve seats and cam followers. This metal-to-metal contact might occur either due to in-built characteristics, e.g. valve seats worked directly into the combustion chamber; or to oil breakdown 'cos of age or over-stressed oil.

But with the combination of modern oils and modern fuel mixes this is pretty unlikely, especially as I bet you're not intending doing enormously high mileages? So, to finish: if it makes you feel better using a lead substitute, then do so. But I'm not convinced you need to.

You'll see that despite the 6v electrics it has indicators. The switch (on the right bar) looks very authentic but the front indicators are Japanese. I don't think I ever saw a Ducati single with indicators and I assume these are not original? I think they will be binned, but unfortunately the back ones are built into the panniers.

Can't remember having seen a single with indicators, neither. Now me, I think you should keep them, just change the fronts to something a bit more period - either CEV or Aprilia (hard to find) like the twins used; or Lucas like Laverda used at the time.

[Ventodue]

Here's another photo, this time of a 350, taken from Ian Falloon's Standard Catalog. In the book, the shot is attributed Ducati Motor (sic), btw.

[Glawster]

Howard,
Please find attached picture of the pannier frame - I just picked it up along with all the other black parts from powder coating. I haven't included any measurements but I'm not planning on putting it back on the bike except for "special occasions" so you're quite welcome to borrow / have a look at it sometime if we could fix a suitable rendevous point. (I'm in Cheltenham, but spend plenty of time on the M6).

I'm very happy with the quality of the powder coating job done by RPA in Bristol. They also welded up my number plate bracket and seemed to adopt a quite flexible approach to pricing. All turned around in 4 days.
The same can't be said for S&T Chrome Plating in Bristol. I dropped off the items on the attached photo for Chrome plating, along with lots of nut / bolts / washers etc for zinc plating and they told me it would be £460. When I regained conciousness I made my excuses and left! I left the zinc plating items at a local company in Stroud who are charging me £20.
I've sent the same photo to 3 other Chrome Platers for an estimate, but frankly it might be better to just buy replacements. Any advice on Chrome plating appreciated!
The seat is with RK Leighton who are blasting and powder coating the base, refilling and recovering.
The hubs are with a delightful 83 year old gentleman in Milton Keynes - Dick Waldron - for new chromed steel rims and stainless spokes.

I haven't had so much fun in years! I have a neighbour who's popped out of the undergrowth and has a 350 mk3, 350 racer and 851 Tricolore lurking in his garage. Never met him until now!

Cheers,
Derek