1958 175 Sport tail light

[machten]

Hi all,

Would I be right in thinking that tail light I have on the 175 Sport is the wrong one...



and should have the light as shown here (without the black plate)?



regards,

Kev

[ajleone]

In my experience and observation and also talking to other folks, the headlights and tail lights seemed to vary somewhat in these bikes. To say that the tail light is "wrong" might be a little strong. Given the originality of the rest of the bike, the tail light may very well be the original one. If you took it off an see other mount holes, etc. that would be a clue that it was not original, but who the the heck really knows. IMHO

Very cool bike anyways...
Tony

[JimF]

I wholeheartedly agree with Tony's wisdom - if you find no evidence (extra holes, testimonial rust marks etc.) that another tail light was ever fitted I would figure that's what it came with.

Given the age of the plate affixed to the bracket I would strongly suspect that it left the factory just as it is today.

I could be wrong but you may be trying too hard to achieve originality on a completely original bike. You have to proceed with caution as you could change the bike to match other people's poor memories about how the bike may have been fitted when new or to match another somewhat faulty restororation wherein the restorer put the wrong taillight on.

Jim

[machten]

OK. Thanks fellas. I'll see what witness marks are there and take it from there.

Kev

[Bevel bob]

Reading Tom Baileys book, it appears that Ducati were happy to fit just about anything as long as it was in stock.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

Reading Tom Baileys book, it appears that Ducati were happy to fit just about anything as long as it was in stock.

____ I-myself, however, expect that all those of us who were into DUCATI back when most all DUKEs were being imported, never actually noticed any factory-fitted stock-parts variances, (until the L-twins came, [at which point their installed stock-parts would indeed vary,, but only between successive production-runs, within the same model-year] ).
So I definitely DIS-agree with such a notion (as it's been related/stated by Bevel bob), that any Ducati-Single models ever came (into he US.) from the factory with any parts fitted which were-not pretty-much exactly the same as is depicted within the related factory parts-books !
__ I find it to be fairly disconcerting that anyone (expected to be very knowledgeable about old DUCATIs), would actually suggest to others that it ought to be suspected that original/stock-parts (which were factory-fitted on factory-assembled Duke-models), could've likely varied (within the same model-line),
especially, as-if the factory would be so easily willing to go-ahead & allow such disorder to be done.
__ I admit that there may be some very minor exception(s) (which I don't happen to recall of at this moment), but rest-assured that it couldn't be anything as major as a tail-light (or even anything NEAR the like) !
__ However, (before Tony may possibly bring it up), I guess I better clarify that Monza-models (at least), did come (imported into the U.S.) stock with two different types of taillight-assemblies...
First there was the rectangle-style type (produced by 'CEV'), which later got replaced (perhaps due to US.law/requirements), with the later round-style. _ However even so, there were some later-models which still came with the older rectangle-style, but both style-types didn't come employed randomly...
The later imported production-runs mostly came with the 'made-for-USA' round-style type of tail-lamp,, and any later imported batches which may all have come with the regular-standard rectangle-style TL.type, I had always assumed must've had to be of a production-run/batch which wasn't originally produced & intended specifically for the US.market, (but got sent here anyhow to more quickly fulfill Berliner's order, [or maybe was just someone's big-mistake] ).
But certainly THAT tail-lamp part-inconsistency wasn't dependent upon any haphazardly available stock-supply issues.
__ Further diverting,, I believe the most questionable related TL.parts-odyssey, is all the various tail-lamp setups employed on the n-c.250-Motocross/Scrambler-models prior to 1966...
But I believe those 3 or 4 variances were logically-ordered sequential-updates, which weren't randomly employed (as some-others may allow us to believe), even though one of those updates may've occurred within a single model-year.


____ Next,, not-only have I never owned ANY 175cc Duke-model, I haven't even seen one in-person, (which was complete or in running-condition). _ So I'm personally unable to help confirm much of anything concerning those oldest Duke-models. _ HOWEVER...
I fortunately happen to own an old/original 175/200 factory parts-book, (so that I could possibly look-up the tail-light parts of a 175-Sport),
but unfortunately however, I've already looked for it where it used to be kept, and it was no-longer there to be found... (I recall last looking at it sometime in 2010, for some thread-info I back-then posted for this w.site,, and since assumed that I had put it back/away.)
I do have a fair idea of where it may've been left but, I'll have to dig-through about two-years of accumulated matter, to see if it (likely) got left & buried there. _ So I still hope to find that parts-book, by Wednesday.
When I do, I should then be able to confirm the taillight-model/design in question.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[graeme]

Sorry Bob (DCTB), but I have to agree with Bevel Bob on what he said.
I can only speak from experience with Australian delivered wide case singles, not the early US delivered singles.
Example,

Some time ago I asked Ian Gowanlock about differences I have found regarding late wide case singles, his answer below.
This is in answer to a question I had asked regarding why I have had 3 '74 disc brake 450's which all had 250 frames.
Written in Ian's unique wit.

hi Graeme,
You have stumbled on another corollary of the eternal mystery.
It has long fascinated me that people write books about Ducatis and make a definitive statement that some model must have a particular part. It never quite worked that way. There was chaos. Also in 1974 there was a lot of industrial trouble in Italy causing great disruption to the production of anything and everything. It would not surprise me that all your bikes were made in one batch and the day they were put together there were only 250 frames on the shelf so that is what they got. There are enough incidents of this type to fill a not particularly small book. The 1973/74 era was rich in this type of uniqueness (that is a nice term for it) and the 1983/84 era totally redefined one-offs. As the great Inspector Clueseau said as he stepped from his Citreon 2CV into the swimming pool into which he had just driven,"It is all part of the rich pageant of life".
Enjoy it.
regards
Ian

Graeme

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" I have to agree with Bevel Bob on what he said. "

____ Actually, it should be realized that 'Bevel bob' himself did not personally make that claim in question, as HE-himself had actually merely-just "related" it !



" I can only speak from experience with Australian delivered wide case singles, not the early US delivered singles.
Example,
This is in answer to a question I had asked regarding why I have had 3 '74 disc brake 450's which all had 250 frames. "

____ I must admit OF-COURSE, that such varied parts discrepancies as the substitution of a 250-frame in-place of a 450-frame is indeed a MAJOR parts mix-up !
But HERE in the USA, (where all my experience with DUCATIs was gained, and where the US.importer was Ducati's main market),, I'm quite sure that nothing of that sort (or anywhere near it), had ever gotten imported here.
I guess I could accept that Ducati may've allowed such poor production-practice to go to other countries (where they didn't have as much reason to fully care about the effect it may have on those markets). _ But having-not personally ever being exposed to such practice (by Ducati), I've been fairly ignorant of anything of that (rather major) sort.
But I'm still sure that such has not been a common issue HERE in the U.S., and I continue to strongly stand by my claim, (but of-course merely for just within the US.market only) !

It has long fascinated me that people write books about Ducatis and make a definitive statement that some model must have a particular part. It never quite worked that way.

____ That leads me to wonder what planet*, I mean 'country', Ian has lived in since the late-1950s ? - (* As he may also wonder about the likes of myself.)
Apparently he & I, (as well as the like of most others), should both come to realize that our individual-experience and also that of the book-writers, was not omni-worldwidely gained, and thus is understandably to likely not always perfectly correlate.

Also in 1974 there was a lot of industrial trouble in Italy causing great disruption to the production of anything and everything.
The 1973/74 era was rich in this type of uniqueness (that is a nice term for it) and the 1983/84 era totally redefined one-offs.

____ Well, 1974 was the last year that any Duke-models -(Ducati-Singles) were imported into the US.market, and as I had previously stated that such mentioned part-consistency was not an issue until after the L-twins became imported (starting 1972), I can thus continue-on standing-by my previously asserted claim.

____ Thanks for helping to get the original/stock-parts issue ironed-out.
__ And since machten's 175-model is likely not a made-for-USA model, then Bevel bob's mentioned point may possibly indeed be a very valid one.
And also as well, those clues which Tony & Jim have pointed-out may then be the best to be found, (unless of-course the original-owner can be tracked-down).


____ (BTW Graeme, I used the highlight-function for just the wording which you had quoted from Ian, within your post,, so as to more clearly separate your wording from his, (as is expected to be done in this forum).


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[graeme]

____ That leads me to wonder what planet*, I mean 'country', Ian has lived in since the late-1950s ? - (* As he may also wonder about the likes of myself.)
Apparently he & I, (as well as the like of most others), should both come to realize that our individual-experience and also that of the book-writers, was not omni-worldwidely gained, and thus is understandably to likely not always perfectly correlate.

The country is Australia.

If you think the mix of parts was bad from the factory, the (mostly) dealer customer service for warranty claims in the early and mid "70's "WAS" on another planet!

But the bikes were fantastic, once you had sorted the various problems, and still are.

graeme

edit,,,, Kev, sorry for your post re the tail light being sidetracked.
I think your 175 Sport is one of the nicest bikes I've seen, as it is.

[Ventodue]

Would I be right in thinking that tail light I have on the 175 Sport is the wrong one...

Yep, no question. There should be more of that red plastic stuff ...

Craig