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Hello,

now i have the to start the restoration of my bike.
So look´s the machine as i bought it.

Frame number is DM250*80512*IGM1985-OM
Engine number is DM250 80520 stamped in the left case
Engine number in the V5 is DM 80533
Producion date on the inner side of fork: 26 4 61
V5 say´s Registration Date 1965, Colour(s) blue
4-speed gearbox
2 yellow wires out of case
In my opinion it is an early Daytona, BUT the frame and the forkcovers are completly black!
I had looked in all open Screwholes, between attachmentholders for tank and saddle, under the forkholder and the the lot of scratches,
the black color is original.

Knows anybody, if the daytona was produced with black frame - or what is this for a frame?

Are this clip on´s original?

You can see, the former owner was an ork - lever´s, destroyed fork nuts.
The oil-filter screw has no edges - this guy didnt have a wrench.

On backside of the frame are strange scratches, there was something welded?
The cut off was made with a chainsaw .

On orignal frames i had never seen something.
Does anyone have any idea what might have this been?

Regards from the snowy germany
Karsten

Hi Karsten

if your frame is a confirmed 250 them it was made in 1961 . only the Diana and Monza had the 2 extra seatmounting holes at the curved cross brace on the toprear frame tubes . and only in 1961

Eldert

Hallo Eldert,

thank´s for your fast reply.
It is an 250 frame, the stamped number ist DM250 ... .
Have you a picture where i can see the rear end with this extra seat mounting holes?

But what ist with the color - i think all Daytonas had blue frames ?
My knowledge comes from Ian Falloons Ducati book .

Karsten

Hi Karsten

i got my info from the book Ducati singles first person from Tom Bailey

on page 147 he clearly shows the extra mounting holes

Eldert

The Daytona was a UK model. In the US, this model was called the Diana. Since you’re writing from Germany, I’m curious: what was this model called in Europe, Daytona or Diana? Perhaps some markets in Europe received black frames? The Ducati shown in your pictures is in remarkably good condition for a 50 year old motorcycle. It may have been restored at some point which could account for the black painted frame and several non-original parts: alloy rims, VHB carb, clipons (no, the clipons are not original). Original black painted frames had a white or very light gray primer under the black paint. Is there a coat of white primer under the black paint? I’m also curious how a pan headlight as used on early US model scramblers and the Diana MkIII ended up on a European model. As I recall, these were installed on some F3 models which were sold in Europe but the Scrambler and Diana MkIII evidently weren’t sold in the UK (according to Walker’s information). Were these models sold on the continent? Regards, Matt

Hallo Matt,

i think the Daytona was a model only for GB/UK.
In UK weren´t sold the diana MkIII and the early scrambler - the diana is the model for the US - the rest of world wasn´t delivered with this model.
I had no information about a such bike in germany. In Spain you found the the models with the specific name "de luxe", but this are mototransen.
If sombody know´s more - i´m interested. This era is very confus with the bike types - every year some new specifications under the same name ... (look only at the tail light´s).
In the case of colour i had found a thin coat of light grey/white primer under black paint. But i had looked in all holes and found no indication of an other coloring.
I will strip the completely frame because they have to much scratches and then i will exacly see what´s fact.
But was the early daytona delivered with a black frame??????

With the pan headlight thats a joke from me - my favourite is the early Diana MKIII - a bike without frill.
Thats why i had mounted the new headlight, a dellorto ssi 27 I have already, tank and seat also. (Thank you ebay ).
Okay i need new clipon´s, at least new levers.


Karsten

KarstenH wrote:But was the early Daytona delivered with a black frame?

Hi Karsten,

I think you're possibly paying too much attention to the current frame colour . First look at the yellow and black paint job that a previous owner had done - and then think what it would have looked like with a blue frame ... .

Obviously what the previous owner was trying to do was make the bike look like a Desmo. So he HAD to change the frame colour. (Frankly, what he did to your bike was horrible enough. We should just be grateful that at least he had the frame stripped and re-painted ... . )

As Eldert has already pointed out, Tom Bailey specifically says that the extra seat mounting bolts such as you have is a special characteristic of the 1961 Diana/Daytona. In case you don't have it, here's a scan of Tom's picture.



In addition, Tom says that 1961 Dianas/Daytonas had a low engine number. Ian Falloon tells us that the numbers started at 80001. Your engine is 80520. QED - you're right: it's a 1961 Diana/Daytona - with a stripped and repainted frame .

So what are YOU going to do with it? Restore it, with a blue frame this time? Or customise it ? With a frame colour of your choice, of course ...

Ciao

Craig

Hi Karsten,

Ducati had some presence in Europe (other than Italy) in the early 1960’s. See advertisement from the French importer circa 1963 (thank you zseft-zundapp). Certainly much of their production went to the USA but there were importers in Europe as the UK. I’m sure I’ve seen advertisements from the Netherlands. Perhaps Deutschland as well? So there were Dianas being sold on the continent as well as the Daytona in UK. By the looks of this Diana in a French advertisement, the frame was painted blue.



Matt

Hi Craig,

thanks for this scan, i had paid on friday the two books at Tom.
But this picture show´s the mounting bolts between rear shock´s and tank - look at my last picture, you could see the cuttet bolts behind the rear suspension .
With the colour you are right, i had overlooked a good indicator - the nuts at the upper end of rear suspension are black coloured.

Hi Matt,

also thank´s for your picture.
in the german motorpress are italian bikes from this time a blind area. I had a lot of articles about MV Agusta super bikes, Ducati 750 and 900SS with EGLI Frame, Gilera 4-cylinder ... en detail with a lot of information.
Everybody has such a bike or could by someone ...
But the little "bread and butter" bikes between 50 and 250 ccm are not so often, in germany we had a lot of own producers (BMW, NSU, Zündapp, DKW) and a ducati was everytime not cheap - thats why they are very exotic.
The wide case scrambler is another case - of which there are plenty.

So the summary of all:
- i had bought a 61 Daytona
- the yellow plastic will become trash, only the tank base (a late sebring/junior Tank) will bee saved
- the bike will be restored as an blue coloured Daytona with factory racing kit - like the bike in the article from the topic "Daytona/Diana differences from Monza etc.", currently at page 2 in the forum.
- the last missig parts are the handlebars and the wheels, in moment i had borrani-rims with 3-rib hub´s - they are usful but not original, i have time ... .
In the next summer i will drive ...

Karsten

" like the bike in the article from the topic "Daytona/Diana differences from Monza etc.", currently at page 2 in the forum. "

____ It won't stay there for long though, so here's a handy link to that...
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1254

____ Also, I thought it worth-while to re-post this tread's second posted-picture with it brightened-up & enlarged somewhat.


Duke-Cheers,
Bob