Scrambler year model help please

[graeme]

Hi, I'm trying to find out what year a 450 Scrambler is.
It has a 1974 model engine with the wide spaced case bolts front and rear of the cylinder.
Ducati Electronica electronic ignition.
'74 year enclosed tachometer drive.
46---- engine number.
So the engine is '74 as far as believe.

The frame has 3 round lugs (both sides) where side covers would go, like the Desmo yellow side covers with push on rubber grommets.
The rest of the frame looks like scrambler frames I've seen in books.

The front forks look like Marzocchi but don't have the lug that holds the drum brake plate, but it has a stay fixed to the guard bolt.

I can't tell if the tank is chromed as its been painted black (cheaply)
The winged badge is white instead of black.

The papers say 1968.

Bitza ?

????

Graeme

[Ventodue]

Hi Graeme,

First thought, it’s a Mark 2 SCR from 1973-4. Like this:



1. The Mark 2 SCRs had big side panels, similar to the Desmo.

2. They also had forks with a ‘stay fixed to the guard bolt’. You sure the forks are Marzocchis?

3. The white badges are not significant.

4. Obviously, the date given in the papers don’t match the engine, ‘cos the 450 didn’t appear until 1969 . So who knows what’s going on there …

What's the frame number?

Ciao

Craig

[graeme]

Hi Craig,
Not sure of Marzocchi,,,, they are black sliders with no lugs for drum brake or lugs for calipers.
The dust seals are Mazocchi.

Frame has been powder coated so its hard to read,
Paperwork says DGM 7066OM
From what I read on the steering head,,,,
DM450S * 467798
DGM 702R-011 (this is very hard to read, but could be as the paperwork says)

The left side cover lugs have worn out rubber grommets for side cover push in.
1 at the bottom and the other 2 up at about the top of the battery.
The right side has the 2 at the height of the top of the battery and 1 hanging down from under the seat.

The front brake is a single sided drum and looks as though a lug has been welded to the brake plate to take the 1 brake stay.
It is not a double sided drum. This isn't standard I assume.
The forks look the same as your picture.

Graeme

[Ventodue]

Not sure of Marzocchi. They are black sliders with no lugs for drum brake or lugs for calipers. The dust seals are Marzocchi.

They sound like Telescos, to which someone has later fitted some Marzocchi seals. I mean, where are you gonna find genuine Telesco seals ... ?

Frame has been powder coated so its hard to read. Paperwork says DGM 7066OM

That’s the homologation code. And it’s wrong . It should be DGM 7026 OM - see below.

From what I read on the steering head, DM450S * 46779 ...

That makes it a 1974 SCR . Have a look at Robert Miller's list on Bevel Heaven (and don't forget to send him your numbers too ...), and there you will find 4x 1974 450 SCRs with the following numbers:

467 407
... 541
... 655
468 670

...(and) DGM 702R-011 (this is very hard to read, but could be as the paperwork says)

'Pound to a penny' it’s DGM 7026 OM = the homologation code for 1973-4 SCR.

The front brake is a single sided drum and looks as though a lug has been welded to the brake plate to take the 1 brake stay.
It is not a double sided drum. This isn't standard I assume.

Nah, only Mark 1s had single sided drum. Yours should be double sided Grimeca - see piccie.

[ajleone]

For what it's worth, here is the info I have.

My recently sold 1970 450 Scrambler, also referred to a Series 1 Jupiter - I have good reason to believe it was a 1969 or 1970 since the PO had it since 1970 and purchased it new. The Frame serial number is DM450S * 460580 DGM7026-OM also stamped on the headstock. The engine serial number is 451752 The forks on this were Cerani' and it had the typical Radelli rims.

I also had a "1972" 450 Jupiter. This bike had Borrani alloy rims and Marzocchi forks and the DLS Grimeca brakes as in the picture above. Also the headlight ears where the Verlicchi rubber/chrome mounts and the instrument holder was the rubber unit as on the 450 MK3. My 1970 450 Jupiter had a sleeved painted steel headlight ears and individual metal instrument holders. The 1972 also had the same front mud guard as the above but no side boxes. I believe the side boxes came later on the 1973-1974 models. My guess is that they used the same frame mounts for the Scrambler side boxes for the 450 Mark 3 side boxes, even thought the sides boxes were different.

The blue bike is the 1972 (year I cannot verify) and the yellow bike is the 1970, which I am pretty sure is a 1970 or very close to that model. I added the side bag to the 1970 bike, which I think I picked-up on ebay at some point.

I am not an expert, this is just want I have to go on. Hope it helps.
Tony

100_0074.jpg

BUSA%2520013.jpg

[graeme]

Thank you both very much.
I'll post some pictures later of the bike.
There are things that are obviously not standard on this bike for any SCR.
But after so many years it happens.
It's nice to know what it's supposed to be so I can try and get it close again.
The side cover lugs look like an after thought or welded on by a previous owner which is what had me stumped.
They may still be add ons.

Anyone got any solutions to getting powder coat off? (other than grit blasting)
It must be 3mm thick in places, would be good on garden furniture.

Thanks Craig and AJ

Graeme

[ajleone]

A couple more observations:

I think the later Scrambler/Jupiters shared more in common with the 450 Mark 3's (not Mark 3D's, just Mark 3 - Blue, gold accents). My 1974 450 Mark 3 had the same forks, headlight ears, front brakes, etc as my 1972 Scrambler. The 450 Mark 3 even had the bosses in the headstock that was used to mount the tank on the Scrambler. The Mark 3 did not use the boss and the tank was mounted from the underside.
I also mixed-up the statement about the shocks, which I have corrected in my previous post - the forks on the later 450's were Marchozzi's and the earlier ones were Cerani's.

Here is a pic of the Marchozzi on the 450 Mark 3 - same as on 450 Scramblers and on the pictured above.

DSCN0586.JPG

Tony

[graeme]

Thanks Tony,
Some pictures of what I have,,,











Both wheels are DID 18"
32 mm round slide fitted
Gauges look like GT 750 gauges
No centre stand
rear guard has been cut short at the rear
Head light is aftermarket
Front brake is wrong
rear shock bolts broken, bent and wrong
etc, etc
but a start to a resto and enough to make it worth doing.

[ajleone]

Graeme,
Looks to be a good solid starting point for a project. Keep us posted on the progress !
Tony