New guy in Mototrans forum, and merge it all together?

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JimF
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New guy in Mototrans forum, and merge it all together?

Postby JimF » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:56 am

Besides noticing his post there, helping and welcoming him, it brings up a question for the forum at large:

Should the Mototrans and Condor forums just be rolled into the main Singles talk forum?

I get the feeling that posts there get overlooked due to the significantly lighter level of activity in those topics. I don't expect that combining Mototrans and Condor into this topic would likely create excessive activity that would be burdensome to parse when members check in.

As this forum belongs to all of us I welcome anyone's opinions about a possible merge of topics.

Thanks

Jim

Ventodue
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Re: New guy in Mototrans forum, and merge it all together?

Postby Ventodue » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:20 am

Hi Jim,

Like you, I'm both a Bologna and a Barcelona supporter; and, for no particular reason, I rather like it as it is ... :D . But I can't pretend I'd be very upset if you changed it, either.

That said, if I'm going to be picky ... :shock:

The titles of the sections are potentially confusing in that, while "Ducati Singles Talk" covers all the singles, be they Italian or Spanish in origin, there's a separate section for the Motorans bikes - of which there were far more than just singles, of course.

So if you want to a) keep the distinction; b) be a litte more precise, then "Italian (Bologna) Singles" and "Spanish (Motorans) Singles" might be clearer ;).

(And you could remove the "so-called" from "Our so-called "Spanish cousins").

Or you could just roll all the sections up into one - like you suggested at the start ... :roll: :lol:

Ciao/un saludo

Craig

graeme
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Re: New guy in Mototrans forum, and merge it all together?

Postby graeme » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:39 am

Does it say Ducati on the tank? Yes.
Are they all singles? Yes. (this is a single site, for Italian and Spanish singles)
Do I read the Mototrans posts? Yes.

Doesn't matter to me where the posts are, they are all of interest to me.

My 2 cents worth.

Graeme

Singlethump
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Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: New guy in Mototrans forum, and merge it all together?

Postby Singlethump » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:21 am

It took me a bit to figure out why my original thread in Mototrans was locked per my previous posts. Gee, I didn't think I pissed anyone off! Duhh,, merged into the singles group.

It runs fine and is a hoot to ride and as the owner has other priorities it's been sitting at my house for a couple weeks. Being a gearhead and inveterate tinkerer I figured I'd check all the electrics and the charging system as it's been dormant for x years. It took a while to remove oxidation from every connector on the bike. Well imagine that, the high beam works now. A few well placed taps and the horn is again alive.

I took that wonderful Spanish handlebar switch apart and cleaned those guts up. Note: I thought that company should have been shot for the abysmal quality parts they produced on the Bultacos (Buljunko) I had. And,,,, I've given up trying to make that inline brake light switch work on the rear brake cable. I find it amazing that even in the mid 2000's Ducati used rubber insulators that are relatively conductive! Didn't ya ever hear of carbon black?? I've had it apart umpteen times, made a new foam insulator 'spring' *which doesn't self heat* and still no worky. I unplugged the effin thing as it either won't make contact or sticks on.

Ok, on to the main issue:
Damn,,, no charging. Only battery voltage at any rpm with a fully charged battery. It's making good AC between the yellow stator wires, ( 15-~30+V depending on revs) and neither are shorted to ground.

Ok gurus, plz help this guy out again !

DewCatTea-Bob
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Re: New guy in Mototrans forum, and merge it all together?

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:05 am

" no charging. Only battery voltage at any rpm with a fully charged battery. It's making good AC between the yellow stator wires, ( 15-~30+V depending on revs) and neither are shorted to ground. "

____ When the battery is already FULLY charged-up, the regulator-unit THEN does-not put out any charging-current (to be discovered). _ So maybe that's why ?
Or perhaps you just didn't make it clear that the Duke has had a well established discharging-battery issue, due to insufficient charging-output. _ If THAT's the case, then the rect.regulator-unit is most suspected.
__ Do you have (or can get) a couple diodes (minimum 4-amp handling) ?
If so, disconnect the r/r.unit and hook-up a diode between either of the yellow alt.wire-leads & Ground. _ (The butt of the diode goes to Ground, and it's pointed-end gets connected to the yellow-wire.)
Then check (again) for any charging.
__ Let us know what you're now thinking.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

Singlethump
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Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: New guy in Mototrans forum, and merge it all together?

Postby Singlethump » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:33 am

Thx bob,
I brought the battery up to make it easier to notice a voltage rise as one that's relatively down as you know, will require more time at rate to get the syst volts on the rise. Was it at 1.260? No. Did I measure the sg? No. But after several minutes of intermittent testing of lights, and that effin stop switch and horn, it was surely not all the way up!

As the Alternator makes good AC, surely DC can be gained by the substitution of diodes in place of the RR for a test of unregulated DC generation. I have some DO4 style pieces around here somewhere and a wheatstone bridge if I can remember where I put the things. But that's again, a moot point as we know DC is attainable. Also have a couple 15 amp DO style zeners. And some mondo Westcode diodes with 6000 amp capacity from induction heating inverters but who cares about them!

As we both know, the RR is likely toast. Got a recommendation on a reg/rec that I can substitute? Correct me on the wiring colors on the original RR here.

Yellow Stator AC
Blue Batt + and into the harness which goes somewhere!
Red Seems the same circuit as the blue. To ignition + and switched?
Gray No frickin idea...

DewCatTea-Bob
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Location: Near SE side of Lake Michigan

Wiring-connections for Mototrans Charging-system

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:52 am

" As we both know, the RR is likely toast. "

____ Well your r/r.unit might possibly be okay and the circuit which turns it on (by an adequately charged battery) may be less than ideally connected. _ (That's the brown-wire circuit from the ign.switch on most other wide-case models.)
If that circuit is not doing it's job properly, then the r/r.unit will not work (same as if the unit had become totally non-functional).


" Got a recommendation on a reg/rec that I can substitute? "

____ The Mototrans wiring-system is slightly different and I no longer have it's particulars memorized but, I believe a r/r-unit from any other wide-case model will work as well, also those 12v.units from the early L-twins.
__ You really don't need a regulator IF you always run with lights turned-on OR always turned-off. _ You need use only the output of just ONE yellow alt.wire for no lights,, or both for running with lights. _ As the battery itself can THEN perform the job of v.regulation without help from a regulator.


" Correct me on the wiring colors on the original RR here. "

____ As I already indicated, I'm no-longer sure of such on the Mototrans-Dukes, but I think the wire-colors attached to their r/r.unit were: yellow; yellow; red; blue; blue , with the red & blues all connected together electrically (but not physically).


" Yellow Stator AC "

____ Correct.


" Blue Batt + and into the harness which goes somewhere! "

____ Right... that's one blue-wire to the battery's pos.terminal, and the other blue-wire goes up-to the fuses for all the main-loads.


" Red Seems the same circuit as the blue. "

____ Well it could indeed "seem" that way, however it ought to be (more definitely) thought-of as the (3rd)- wire-lead which comes from the alt.stator (carrying the pos.out-put offered by the alternator). _ The red-wire is a 'common' for the opposite-ends of both yellow stator wire-leads.


" To ignition + and switched? "

____ Assuming you have a Mototrans-model with their electronic-ignition, then no...
As the red-wire only directly (electrically) connects to the battery & all it's loads,
and has nothing at all to do with the (separate electronic) ignition-system's circuit.
__ The key-switch set-up is quite unique ! ... It turns everything OFF with two separate internal-circuits...
One, it UN-grounds the battery,, and two, it shorts-out the separate/dedicated alt.power to the ign.system,
(that's in key-off position, mind-you).
So while that unique key-switch OPENS one of it's circuits, it then (at the same time) CLOSES it's other circuit,, so as to turn-off the main-power AND also kill-off/short-out the (separate) ignition-circuit.


" Gray No frickin idea... "

____ Right-now, I really don't recall any "Gray" wire. _ Where is it connected-up at exactly ?


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

Singlethump
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: New guy in Mototrans forum, and merge it all together?

Postby Singlethump » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:08 pm

thx again Bob,
I'll dig into it a bit more and as I can't find a schematic for the particular bike, I'll throw up some pics for posterity. Googling turns up several Mototrans 350 schematics which I assume would be the same as this 250. (but as it's Italo/Spanish, we both know what assume means!)
Ignition is a points system with the short dwell advancer, not electronic. I'll pull the tank and do some wire tracing and ping a few circuits. Especially that gray wire.
It's a lights on bike so I'll need both legs from the Alternator. Hmm,, that reminds me, it has an American TungSol sealed beam that someone fitted years ago and now I wonder what the wattage is on that thing. Guess I'll have to take it out again and have a look see...

I'll get back to the bike ~ Monday as it's a busy weekend with a 600 mile ride Sunday on the 998.

DewCatTea-Bob
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Mototrans-250 Wiring-scheme same as Italian W-C

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:51 pm

" Googling turns up several Mototrans 350 schematics which I assume would be the same as this 250. "

____ I had assumed you had the 350-model (for some reason). _ The 250's electrical-scheme would be the same only if it also came with the electronic-ignition (as some Mototrans 250s did).


" Ignition is a points system with the short dwell advancer, not electronic. "

____ I'm pretty-sure then that your Duke-model's scheme is laid-out the same as most-all other wide-case models.


" Especially that gray wire. "

____ It's now a certainty that if your Mototrans doesn't have a brown-wire (connected [electrically] from the r/r.unit to the key-switch), then your gray-wire must serve the same function* (in place of the brown-wire seen on most w-c.wire-scheme/diagrams),
(* which is to signal the r/r.unit that the battery is ready-to-go).


" It's a lights on bike so I'll need both legs from the Alternator. "

____ So then if your lights are left turned-on all the time, then you'll likely always need full-power from the alternator and thus really don't need a regulator, (but rather just a pair of diodes).


" it has an American TungSol sealed beam that someone fitted years ago and now I wonder what the wattage is on that thing. "

____ The sealed-beam should have a number on it (such as 4020), what does yours have ? _ In any case, it's expected wattage is either 35 or 45 watts.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE... If this-post is not-yet signed-off with '-Bob', then I'm still in the process of completing it,, and if not also included with 'DCT' near bottom as well, then I may edit this post's wording at a later time. - Dct.Bob

Jon Pegler
Posts: 459
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Re: New guy in Mototrans forum, and merge it all together?

Postby Jon Pegler » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:08 am

The grey wire originally went from the regulator unit to the ignition switch on Mototrans machines.

Jon


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