NC shifting issues

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NC shifting issues

Postby Scrambler » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:16 am

Is poor shifting between 3rd and 4th adjustable, either shims? or is it shifting forks. 4th is about a 50/50 clean shift most of the time. Never pops out of gear just has a false neutral or goes right past to 5th.

Any feed back would be appreciated.

Mike Mc
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Shifting-issue

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:30 am

" has a false neutral or goes right past to 5th.
Any feed back would be appreciated. "

____ Do you happen to be a "toe-jabber" ? ... Who does the type of foot-shifting where ya hit the shift-pedal with a 'jab' from your toe ?
Does your shifting-issue occur more readily when you're speed-shifting (as opposed to when you're taking it more easy) ?
If so, (or even not), you ought to read my post concerning shifting-method, at this link... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26&p=257#p257
__ That old-post should explain for you the cause of your "false neutral" (and the most likely reason for why ANYONE has ever missed a shift on their Duke),, while your overshooting -(past the intended gear & into the next) issue, is certainly most-likely due to jabbing too much energy into the shifting-mechanism.
Many riders hit & release ("jab") the shift-lever/foot-pedal with their toe so hard & fast, that too much momentum-energy then gets introduced into the selector-wheel (& also the shift-drum),, thus causing that wheel to 'flywheel' forth-ward (past the ball-stop indentations which are meant to stop & hold it in expected place).
If the shifting 'jab' is not allowed to complete (by KEEPING toe pressed-down, as directed in my old-post), you'll then somewhat-help keep the wheel from fly-wheeling. _ But it's best to not be so excited while shifting and learn how to do it more calmly, as suggested.
__ In the past I've had a number of riders complain about missing shifts, yet when I'd try their Duke, they'd then be perplexed that I-myself would not encounter THEIR shifting-issue !
It's all a mater of shifting-style (or lack of it !), as to whether ya miss any shifts.
Since I discovered on my own the best way to COMPLETE shifts,, ever-since then, I have NEVER missed a shift on any DUKE (or any other motorcycle) !
So be sure to try & learn the shifting-method I preach ! - (As indicated in the old-post found with the given link, inserted above.)


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob
PLEASE NOTE: If my above post is not concluded with "DCT-Bob" at bottom, then I likely expect to finish/edit this post at a later time.
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Re: NC shifting issues

Postby JimF » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:56 pm

Are your clutch plates flat (you can set them on a small piece of plate glass to tell) and is your clutch fully disengaged when the lever is released?

Years ago when I was new to Ducati singles I would in self-deprecating humor joke with my friends about how my Ducati 250 had a 5-speed gearbox that included 7-nuetrals!

At stop lights I could feel the clutch lever tension fluctuating slowly behind my fingers which I eventually realized was the result of the random and ever-changing alignment of warped and spinning clutch plates.

I took two packs of clutch plates and using plate glass I assembled the flattest pack I could and all those crazy neutrals disappeared and gear selection from then on was clean and solid.
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Re: NC shifting issues

Postby Scrambler » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:22 pm

No not a "jabber" I shift very easy and have tried slow even pressure and firm but never in a hurry to shift, clutch is brand new and plates are flat no dragging or uneven lever feel. The shift is rear sets with linkage, but it is also brand new and has needle bearings and quality hiem ends. Malcomle at Syds that built the motor suggested i use a reversed shift lever with no linkage. I doubt that is the problem as there is no friction or hang up in the linkage. It will downshift ( 4th to 3rd ) clean ever time and always feels crisp. Same from 5th to 4th.

Thanks Mike Mc
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Re: NC shifting issues

Postby Scrambler » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:01 pm

Bob, I read through the "thread" you attached. Good information and i will try the hold down shift technique on my way home today. It is a beautiful day here in Northern California, mid 80's so i rode the bike in. Nice 40 miles of back roads and small mix of freeways.

Thanks Mike Mc
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Re: NC shifting issues

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:46 pm

" No not a "jabber" I shift very easy and have tried slow even pressure and firm but never in a hurry to shift, "

____ Alright then, but in order to experience the "bad luck" of not having the gear-dogs happening to instantly mesh-up properly, one need not be a "jabber" ! _ Even when shifting carefully my-way, it's of-course still possible for the gear-dogs to fall atop of one another (instead of mesh-engaging).
__ For those of us with above average perception, it can be perceived when the shift-lever has not fully reached it's FULL arc of travel all the way downward to it's expected normal-level of travel (to completely bottom-out). _ And whenever the dogs just happen to collide top to top, that normally expected lever-level is not reached ! _ And when that happens to happen, (leading the average-rider to assume that the lever has bottomed-out [when it really hasn't]),, either the change of gear will fail (with your average-shifting rider), or, if pressure is kept remaining on the lever, the rider ought then feel the lever drop-down just a bit further as the dogs fall-off tops of each other & into normal-engagement.
And the best way to perceive that such FULL-engagement has occurred, is to dump the clutch BEFORE taking your toe-pressure off the shift-lever !
__ So be sure to try-out the suggested UNCOMMON shifting-method, before concluding it's not going to help your shifting-issue.


Duke-Cheers,
-Bob
PLEASE NOTE: If my above post is not concluded with "DCT-Bob" at bottom, then I likely expect to finish/edit this post at a later time.
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Re: NC shifting issues

Postby Scrambler » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:34 am

Made a serious try to use the hold then dump method, it seems to make a small difference but not enough to cure the problem. I will be pulling the motor apart soon to check and see what the drum or forks look like. One for reference and two to check to be sure they are not worn. This motor has seen alot of use in its earlier life although completly rebuilt bt Syds. It has been a hill climber and desert racer in its previous life.It has been in the family since new in 66. No harm i will just keep looking and fixing until it is right.
Thanks for all of the opinions and help.
Mike Mc
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Re: NC shifting issues

Postby double diamond » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:53 pm

Too much grease in the detent hole will cause the detent ball to stick or react very slowly. Use the absolute minimum amount of grease necessary. Matt
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Re: NC shifting issues

Postby DewCatTea-Bob » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:58 am

By: Scrambler...
" Made a serious try to use the hold then dump method, it seems to make a small difference but not enough to cure the problem. "

____ That shifting-method should always work (with a normal trans & shifter-box) !
I don't know of any common-problem which would still allow/cause that miss-shifting which you claim to experience. _ I don't have Jim's experience with warped clutch-plates causing any false-neutrals shifting-issue,, but if that's your problem as well, then how about taking the clutch out of contention and try clutchless-shifting ?
If not performed carelessly, shifting without using the clutch will not damage anything... While cruising-along in gear on flat ground with no strong head-wind,, then when ready to shift upward, simply cut-back slightly on your throttle-setting just a bit and then firmly & quickly press-down on the shift-lever (until you feel the gear-shift complete).
__ If you STILL even then experience any shifting-issues, I'd then suspect something to be amiss within the shifter-mechanism box.


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob
PLEASE NOTE: If my above post is not concluded with "DCT-Bob" at bottom, then I likely expect to finish/edit this post at a later time.
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Re: NC shifting issues

Postby Scrambler » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:36 am

I'll try the no clutch next time out and see how that feels.
Thanks for all the suggestions.

Mike Mc
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