Advice on purchasing Ducati single

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" Why should I stay away from a Desmo? "

____ Well Dave, I'm sure that most any long-time (& caring) owner of any DESMO-model ought to realize the additional work & expense of maintenance required due to the related valve-gear, (with respect to standard/non-DESMOs).
Also, any need for any such parts these days is going to be a problem because those parts are going to be much more expensive providing that ya could even find that type of part for sale anywhere !
__ And what positive/useful aspect does the owner of a DESMO get in return from his DESMO-Single? ... Improved-performance (due to the mechanical-closure of the valves), is what many others would have ya believe. _ BUT, that advantage (over valve-spring closure) could only come into play during engine-revs where serious valve-float would occur at RPMs where stock DucSingles -(DUKEs) can't breath well enough to make any worth-while torque/power anyhow, and thus need not rev-up to that high of RPM-range, (if it could even be possible to do so [under load] ) !
__ So unless the Earth's std.atmospheric-pressure is expected to increase considerably where-ever it is that you plan to ride, there's no really notable performance advantage which a DESMO will give ya (in return for it's disadvantages) !


" What makes a 250D the exception? "

____ First, a 250's cylinder-displacement is small enough to still get filled well enough at the very high-RPMs (which are also possibly high enough that valve-float could otherwise occur), where only the (relatively small)- 250 can still even then produce some worthwhile torque/power.
__ Plus, the std.DESMO-cam -(stock in all sized std.production DESMO-singles), was designed -(with valve-timing, etc.) specifically for the 250 size displacement.
(Yet a stock 250-DESMO is not faster than a stock std.250Mk3 !)


____ I'm still waiting for somebody to contest my opinion. _ (And sorry if it causes the value of 350/450-DESMOs to drop!)


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[MotoMike]

I see that it doesn't pertain to the old duc singles, as the valve springs look to be the same in both motors, but on the newer Ducati's isn't the Desmo design easier on the valve seats than a traditional valve spring motor? especially when in a high rpm application where big spring loads are needed to prevent float?

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" as the valve springs look to be the same in both motors, "

____ Actually, the (DUKE/DucSingle) valve-springs in the DESMO-heads and those within std.heads are not the same, as the DESMO-head valve-springs are the same/weaker springs originally used in the 160-MonzaJr.


" isn't the Desmo design easier on the valve seats than a traditional valve spring motor? "

____ Well that seems like a fair presumption and no doubt certainly would be true IF the valves (in nonDESMOs) were only opened by the cam and then left entirely to just the valve-springs alone, to get the valves shut against their valve-seats... But, the cam-lobes include opening & closing 'ramps', of which the closing-ramps are supposed to let the valves down onto their seats (relatively) gently,, which ought to save the seats from the expected pounding that you'd otherwise imagine.
__ Also, I don't think I've ever noted much of any difference in mileage/wear between the valve-seats of DESMO-heads & std.heads.
Perhaps some place like Syd's could know of any such notable/consistent difference.


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[Single duck]

Hi Dave,

Good to hear that you're thinking of joining the singles sect of the Bevel Brotherhood; none finer! (better still if you can selct the widecase branch rather than the inferior narrowcase branch (but hey; lets not go there ok?)

Prices? What the market will bear is what you'll have to pay so I'm not going to burden you with tales of 'WOW, that is just WAY too much. Far more than I would ever have paid. blah blah blah'. Codswallop. You want it, you have the money, you buy it. Think it's too much to pay? Make a note of the price and then come back to it in 5 years time and then tell me what you think. Cheaper to buy a runner than an unused tart because you can pour an awful lot of your hard earned into just the engine alone. (is there a smiley for 'been there, done that and have the bills (& heartache) to prove it). Like this one but with a tear or two running down the face.

Avoiding a lemon is more problematical. 35+ year old machinery, unknown history/ owners/ maintenance means you'll ALWAYS be taking a risk. no ifs or buts about it. Could be pretty as a picture but blow the big end 5 miles down the road. It's a risk; but you try to do a bit of homework, ask the right questions, speak to people who know. Meet the owner if possible and engage him with conversation. Know him as an owner and enthusiast. Try to move the odds into your favour. Buy books/ workshop manuals/ parts catalogues. These will see you in good stead. Most have some good stuff, few are just opinionated claptrap seen through rose tinted spectacles. Pitfalls and traps MAY be avoided but you'll stand a better chance of surviving if you walk the path forewarned. Take the time to find the right machine (and owner).

What to go for? hmm, tricky. No, not at all actually. What you want is a widecase Desmo. Simple as that. That is not in any way to decry the other singles that you may stumble upon, not at all and far from it. But look at it like this. If you wanted to buy a lightweight, lean and mean, single cylinder, valve spring engine machine how many do you think you could choose from? I'll go away and have a quick 7 course meal while you total them ALL up. But if you want something with a bit of extra 'cachet', a touch more exclusivity than the rest of the herd and even the springer Ducatis you have only 1 choice. right? RIGHT! I mean, JeeZ, you could buy a HONDA for goodness sake! no, you NEED a widecase Desmo. (need a smiley her for 'aching heart' right?)

People will try to fob you off with all kinds of tosh about why the Desmo isn't ANY better at all than the springer engine. I say 'cobblers'. Tell that to Dr T. You don't need to listen to that malarky. Increased complexity? Like another pair of rockers is going to baffle you mechanically ! If it does then maybe a Ducati is not the machine for you. But I don't think so.

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst and you won't go far wrong and WHEN it does go wrong you know you'll be in fine company with many friends around the world to help you out with advice and parts.

But at the end of the day I am just an enthusiast. I am not a 'professional'.

Good luck with your quest.

Howard
http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk

[Teckhardt]

For that matter, Phil might be able to put you in touch with any people selling Duc singles right there in your country of Australia, or perhaps Phil even has one or two for sale on the floor (I've never been to Australia, much less to Road and Race, but I will assume that R&R has a floor!)

X2

When I started looking for a single, I emailed parts suppliers and clubs. I also hit up all the message boards I could find (you already found the best one here). Took me about two years to find a bike.

Good luck with the search.

[Bevel bob]

I think the only way to become a true single enthusiast is to go through the pain and rebuilding (baptism of fire!) , if you buy a fully rebuilt bike you wont understand.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" if you buy a fully rebuilt bike you wont undertand. "

____ I very much tend to agree with BevelBob that at least half the true-desire/fulfillment of ownership that comes from only a DucSingle, is to have also worked on it (to most any degree).
__ But that fulfilling aspect is not really necessary in order be satisfied with the ownership of any such DUKE ! _ And one could even be so satisfied without even being able to ride it. - (This I myself know as fact !)


____ I have since noted that one of the expected 'DESMO-lovers' -(who certainly think only with their heart, on the subject), has finally stepped-fourth & attempted to counter my good-advice about avoiding DESMO-DUKEs (for permanent ownership).
I was expecting someone of the type to try to come-up with some thoughtful-logic for attempting to counter my viewpoint and/or why my opinion may be faulted,
so that I could then reason-out the actual facts of 'for-&-against' shopping for a DESMO-model.
But the only contender thus far, came unarmed with any supposed-facts for me to counter.
(Or perhaps, [as can be suspected from his stated views], he may just be some poor fellow with a collection a DESMOs to sell-off?)
So I'll just have to leave that DESMO-enthusiast's posted counterpoint to be that which it obviously is.
____ I do believe that Dr.T had planned-out his DESMO-head (for the 250!) quite well, however the 350 & (especially)- 450 DESMO-models -(as stock), were little-more than just sales-gimmicks.


Dukaddy-DUKEs,
-Bob

[MotoMike]

Logic always looses when emotion and passion is involved. witness all the people who ride harleys