64 duc resto

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ As Tony's post above may seem to indicate,, your seemingly extra-rare DUKE should indeed have the common (& heavy) black-box unit and the 'Red-label' ign.coil !!


DUCATIly,
DCT-Bob

[bettyann]

250Diana mk3 fact or fiction

In a cycle world us bike test of a new (blue) 1963 Diana mk3 4speed the article was in dec 1963.this is before
the 1964 5 speed model 250 Diana mk3 (red) was tested by Cycle World, How did they know the blue Diana was a mk3 if they weren't named that yet?
In mick Walker's singles restoration book, he listed the 1961 Diana ubf24 Delorto ,1962-1965 Diana mk3 ss1 27 D
1966-67mk3 ss1 29D Capt Paul

[Eldert]

The left hand case (the brake side) has the DM 250 and the rightside (gear shift) has the 88005

i have a 5 speed engine here that has engine nr 87940 that is from a Scrambler



it has a 27 mm Dell Orto carb , a camshaft color coded white and if you look at the lefthand bottom corner
in the pic. you can see a small hole where the steel chainguard was bolted to protect the clutch actuating lever

Eldert

[evil]

I thought I should give a little back story on the bike and I will go back to work on it tonoght or tomorrow and get some more detailed pics and Measurements.

So...... I used to visit some friends of mine that lived in a duplex. Thier neighbor was a cool guy that was into cars and motorcycles, he invited me in one day for a beer. There in is his living room sat the best looking bike I have ever seen. The 1964 Diana (or maybe now it's a 65 Mach 1) I din't go back to my friends house for a while... Ijust kept looking at the Duc. He explained that the previous owner had rebuilt the engine but had never ridden it, so he sold it to him.... he promply painted it all grey with a full grey (spare) tank and the red/grey tank that is currently on it. He said it was probably a Diana but he never cared he just loved how it looked. No more work was done to it. No wiring no nothing.... it just sat perfectly in his living room.

So every time I went back to my friends house I would always pop over to look at the bike and ask if I could buy it. It wasn't for sale and I had no money anyway. So there it sat. Just being cool. One day he said it was time for the Duc to go, He offered it to me and I said I could pay him $50 a month for the rest of my life..... no sale. I got a call from him a few weeks later on a friday.... an 18 year old kid had the money and was coming over on Moday to buy it. He had NEVER ridden a motorcycle before and was going to learn on this one. He also had plans to change the seat and raise the handle bars and god knows what else (I'm sure even though he didn't have plans for it.... he was going to drop the bike.) My friend said, "I don't care how you get the money, but you have to. I have to sell this bike but it will kill me if I sell it to him.

I called every relative I have and gave them the story. A loan came through and I got him the money on Sunday afternoon. The bike went straight to my living room where it sat for years. I figured it would cost a bundle to get it running but most importantly... I knew when it was time to get her running I had to devote my full attention to it. I basically thought the bike was better than me and deserved to be treated as such.

Time went by..... I moved to a place that couldn't fit the Duc so it went in a freinds garage, then again a year later to it's current location. I moved to a house with a moldy basement and to a place where my wife (although she likes it) didn't want a motorcycle in the living room, or bedroom, or kitchen, or baby's room..... can you believe it?

So the bike sat out of site for year after year, only occasionally being kicked over so the engine wouldn't seize. SInce then I have collected more motorcycles and trucks that needed work (1948 F-3 if your interested) and I got tired of all the "projects" just sitting. Time to work or sell. I was given a single owner 1972 Honda trail 90 (CT 90) that didn't run.... I got it running with $20 and a days labor. Now it was no longer junk and it rides like a champ. A spark went off in my head. Hmmmm....... I still have that Duc just sitting. Well..... time to sell or get it running. So here I am with a kid, a job, a house that I am renovating, going back to University, a wife....... etc. I have no time to work on the bike but....... every night I have been driving 20 min to my friends garage to work on her.

I hope she'll be done in a week or two, but I really just want to make sure I don't screw up. Not only is it the most expensive thing I own (paid $3,000 in 2001) but it is living history. I really don't know bull about Ducati's, the help you guys have given is tremendous. I am now trying to find the previous owners to see what the original color of the bike was, and see if I can glean any more info out of them.

Really, thanks for the information it has been MOST helpfull. I will get some good pics of the whole project and post them later.

Evil

[evil]

It does have the black box.
The coil was painted grey, but I will give it a closer look.

what part of the intake port should I measure? is this an ID or OD, do I have to disassemble anything to do so?

[DewCatTea-Bob]

" The coil was painted grey, "

____ Remove any paint where the bracket contacts the coil-body, as paint will only interfere with the electrical ground-pathway.


" what part of the intake port should I measure? is this an ID or OD, do I have to disassemble anything to do so? "

____ I'd really like to have any tool that could make a measurement of the "OD", of intake-ports !
__ You need to remove the carb along with it's manifold and then check the I.D. of the mouth of the port about 1/4" inward, (a std.caliper's tips for internal-readings inserted fully, should work fine).
____ I'm betting that (unless you also have a pair of side-covers with 'GT' on them), what you will find will confirm (like your carb's 29mm-size does), that you indeed have one of the first Mach-I models ! _ Very rare in the USA !


DUKE-Cheers,
-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

By: 'bettyann'...
" How did they know the blue Diana was a mk3 if they weren't named that yet? "

____ Your info is correct C.Paul ! _ So what makes you think the '63' wasn't a called a 'Mark-3' and/or actually named: '250 Diana Mark III' ?
____ As I've posted before (within another thread* back in March) concerning this issue,
the original "Diana" was named the 'Diana 250', and was a 4-speed model for '61 & '62 and was merely a sporty (& rarer) version of a Monza-250. --- *link to thread-page follows, (3rd-post from bottom, on that page) .....
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23&start=40
__ And while I believe that the U.S. didn't get any Mk3s in 1962, I believe they started making 4-speed 'Diana Mark III' models late that year, to be sold in the U.S. for 1963. _ And Berliner -(the U.S. importer) then wanted them to be renamed: '250 Daytona' ! _ Which was very quite reasonable since it was really nothing much at all like the previous 'Diana', as the newer "Diana" was certainly a completely different model and was not at all just another sporty-version of a Monza, and wasn't even made to be actually street-legal cuz it was more intended to be sold to racer-want-to-be types.
So this is one instance which I agree with something that Berliner wanted done, so as to prevent confusion between the newer (& much changed!) Mark-3 model-line & the (quite dissimilar!) older Diana-model, (if for no other reason).
__ That 1963 250 4-speed 'Daytona' is the particular "Diana" model which I think Jim was meaning to proclaim is the rarest Diana-model.(?) - (Even if the Diana-name issue was then still not cleared-up well.)
As I'm sure that the 5-speed version was made soon enough in 1963, for a batch of them to be imported to the U.S. late that year (& possibly titled as 1964s).


" In mick Walker's singles restoration book, he listed the 1961 Diana ubf24 Delorto ,1962-1965 Diana mk3 ss1 27 D
1966-67mk3 ss1 29D "

____ Fairly correct, except the 29mmSSI carbs were definitely stock on Mk3s starting in 1965 ! _ So your statement ought to read as thus...
1961/62 Diana, with UBF24 DelLorto;
1963-1964 Diana MkIII, with SSI 27 D;
1965-68 Mark 3, with SSI 29 D .


DUKE-Cheers,
-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

By: Jim...
" A real Diana is rarer than a Mach 1 or a Mark3. "

____ It seems to me that Jim himself is also a bit guilty of non-correct -(as opposed to 'incorrect') usage of the NAME -(as opposed to the 'term') 'Diana' ...
I'm sure Jim will correct me if I'm not right about my deduction but, I believe that the "Diana" which he actually means to refer to is the 1963 4-speed '250 DIANA MARK III', which is no doubt the very-same model that he has described unique aspects of, for that particular 'Diana' !
Also, that particular Diana-model is certainly the rarest of all Mk3-models, (but I have my doubts that it was more rare than the Mach-I, here in the USA). _ And to only refer to it as just the "Diana", is not really too good to do because then there will be confusion between that extra very rare model & the (less rare) original 'Diana 250' of 1961.


" The Dianas were all 4-speed if I'm not mistaken. "

____ Well, all of the original Diana models indeed were, but, only the very early 'Diana Mark III' models were 4-speeders.
A way to be sure that ya have one of the early Diana M-IIIs which Jim seems to have actually been referring to, is that they have the same alternator-stator as the very early Motocross-models had, with just two wires (instead of 3, like later versions) within the alt.cable ! - (1 Red & 1 Yellow [I believe], as those so equipped models had no brake-light!)


____ I will add 3 pix with notes, to help clear-up this 'DIANA' name-issue.


Old-DUKE Cheers,
-Bob

[evil]

You should check the exact size of the intake-port, that it's 29.4 to 29.6mm (and not more closer to the common 28.5mm figure!), as the larger port-size will confirm that the cyl.head has the large-valves, and also help confirm that your DUKE is in fact indeed a 1965 'Mach-I' (and possibly the 5th such model made?) !

I measured the port...... 29.6+mm or 1 and 3/16"
But...... the foot pegs are not rear set, the title says 1964, I looked at some of the chipped (new) paint and it looks like red primer and BLACK paint are underneath it. some of these things, from my limited knowlege don't point to a mach 1. Or at least aren't what I have seen in pics of them.

here are some other things I noticed..... The original tank has an area cut out for a large carb. the front brakes are vented. there is no tach, there is no red light in the head lamp.

Could this bike just be a pile of parts put together? It was not presented to me in that manner but.... 1964 was a long time ago...

Although I have thanked previously berfore, again..... thanks. I have had more fun learning on this forum than I can say. What a wealth of knowlege and help!!!!

below are some pics of the electric buss and the wierd vent tube and the keyed switches (one on the right was installed when I got her).... and well, just a bunch more pics.

[evil]

Here are more pics

64 duc 090 small.JPG

64 duc 095 small.JPG

Front brake

64 duc 031 small.JPG