diana blue

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" the paint i got is fairly obviously wrong for this model, "

____ So then I assume you've "eyeballed" that paint closely enough to see that it's even devoid of any signs of metallic-like extra-fine sparkle-particles as well !?
So are you confirming that it's definitely a 'solid-color' ?



" the company i got it from
lists several ducati metallic blues.
several of these have the suffix "mica" as opposed to "met" and im wondering if this denotes the particulate size as bob referes to? "

____ That designation "mica" rings a bell for me,, and-so I'm fairly certain that your suspicion is indeed correct, as it's fairly sensible that 'mica' would stand for micro-metallic rather than the std.type/medium-sized sparkle-particles of 'metallic-paint'.
Assuming so, it's then reassuring that such a detailing-distinction has actually been made to properly identify the particular paint that could possibly be considered either as 'metallic' or regular 'solid' paint-finish. _ So that clue could somewhat help restorer-types to realize the possibility that such minor differences actually exist to be concerned with.



" there seem to be several blues
duc a32 metallizzato mica bleu "

____ Of just the listed choices, this lonely-selection seems to offer the only choice for possibly being the actual sought-after paint-color. _ (But even if it's wrong, it could be the most correct choice available.)



" the duc a34 needs applying over a metalized silver basecoat so i think this maybe a translucant tint "

____ Quite likely so,, which would mean that it's devoid of any white shade-base that makes the color-finish lighter & opaque, (as your blue-sample tank-paint appears to contain & display).
(To tell if paint has any white-base included mixed-in, it can best be seen when applied to clear-glass.)



____ Please note that I've since fully* 'edited' my last post (on the previous-page), (meaning that it's contained wording has now been amended & clarified & expanded ! , [since it's original posting],, [* thus earning the 'DCT-Bob' sign-off]).


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[bodge]

the paint i tried first was a solid colour with no type of metallic particle in it,i tried it as it was the only ducati blue they listed in an aerosol,ide thought i might settle for it but as i think im going to build a mk 111 lookalike ill probably go for the mettalic a22 as amartina pointed out it seems to be most common on that period of bike and it appears to be less metalized as im not a fan of the full on metalflake.

[ecurbruce]

The "mica" colors are what we know as pearl or pearlescent,
The metalics are made with various sizes of ground aluminum.
The more translucent the paint is, the more the metalic shows up.

Bruce

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" the paint i tried first was a solid colour "

____ That confirmation allows me to suspect that that-particular paint-color was more likely intended for frame-paint finishing.



" with no type of metallic particle in it, "

____ Then that means that the notable lack solid-smoothness seen on the surface of your sample paint-coating, (as viewable on the paint-surface shown on my zoomed-in version of your fuel-tank picture),, must merely reflect only the paint's dimply/porous surface-texture, rather than any reflective-particles included within the paint-mix, (just as I had previously most suspected).



" ill probably go for the mettalic a22 as
it seems to be most common on that period of bike and it appears to be less metalized as im not a fan of the full on metalflake. "

____ I certainly agree with your attitude concerning "metalflake", (as actual 'metal-fake' finish seems 'over-the-top' cheesy-flashy) !
However I'm now left thinking that perhaps you haven't read-through (or didn't take-in) all my related stated-points within my last post on page-1, as Ducati had never applied any true 'metal-flake' paint-finish for you to possibly find such reproduction-paint available anywhere. _ So the coarsest sparkle-particle paint-finish that could be a suitable 'reproduction' selection, would be a 'metallic' type finish.
__ I've only known-of just three types of sparkle-particle paint-finish,, and with the 'metal-flake' type being a non-suitable choice, that thus only leaves just 'metallic' & micro-metallic types as being reasonable viable-selections for your 'restoration' type concerns.
So if you're inclined towards duplicating the early-60s 'Diana 250' look, then the micro-metallic ought fill-the-bill',, but if rather more preferring the finish-appearance of the early/mid-60's Mark-III, then your "mettalic" pick may indeed be the most suitable way-to-go.


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= ecurbruce ...
" The "mica" colors are what we know as pearl or pearlescent, "

____ Then are you meaning to indicate that the listed 'mica' paint-selection could really be a paint-type that's too recently created to be a suitable-choice for the intended project paint-work ?
Cuz I'm quite sure I never heard-of any actual pearlescent-type paint being available before the '70s.
__ On the other-hand,, if I'm correct that 'mica' is a designation for micro-metallic, then I don't think I can agree that such is exactly the same-thing as 'pearlescent'.



" The metalics are made with various sizes of ground aluminum. "

____ I believe that's indeed so, however it seems obvious that the fine-particles of metallic-paints have various squarish-shapes with flat-faces to reflect light like flat-mirrors.
__ Now I'm certainly no expert on paints, but the more unique shine-casting appearing finish-surface of pearlescent-paints, sure don't seem to exhibit the very-same reflective-quality/luminous-trait as that of mere micro-metallic paint-finish.
So instead of micro-particles with reflective flat-sides (like 'metallic' must have), I'm inclined to surmise that pearlescent-finish rather only contains just reflective spherical-shaped particles. _ And-so if I'm actually right about that speculative conjecture, then micro-metallic and pearlescent surface-finishes are certainly not-really the same !



" The more translucent the paint is, the more the metalic shows up. "

____ That's certainly a fairly logical observation to point-out.
__ So-then conversely,, less-clear/more-opaque finish (with more white-base mixed-in) tends to cover-up a larger portion of particles left deeper-set within the finish, and-thus reduces the sparkle-particle appearance-intensity of metallic-finish.


Enlightenment-Cheers,
-Bob

[Ventodue]

quote= ecurbruce
"The "mica" colors are what we know as pearl or pearlescent ... "

Then are you meaning to indicate that the listed 'mica' paint selection could really be a paint type that's too recently created to be a suitable choice for the intended project paint-work ? Cuz I'm quite sure I never heard of any actual pearlescent-type paint being available before the '70s.

On the other hand, if I'm correct that 'mica' is a designation for micro-metallic, then I don't think I can agree that such is exactly the same thing as 'pearlescent'.

Interesting.

I suspect that "mica" is used here as an abbreviation of 'MICALIZZATA', a term used to describe a paint that contains particles of mica, a glittery mineral used (and here I quote from Wikipedia ):

"Wet-ground mica, which retains the brilliancy of its cleavage faces, is used primarily in pearlescent paints by the automotive industry".

Now, while water-based mica paints have been around for centuries, I, like Bob, yet wonder whether the use of mica paints on our bikes would be anachronistic - even if, from what I read on Tinternet, some pearlescent automotive finishes date from the '60s.

Dunno ....

Ciao

Craig

P.s. To add a little more :

"Pearlescent paints replace the metal particles with ceramic crystals (often called “mica”) that don’t just reflect light but refract it too, splitting it into different colours by allowing some light in and slowing it down as it passes through. This gives the paint not just a sparkle, but a deep colour that can vary depending on how you look at it, making for interesting effects where the car’s bodywork creases or changes direction. In direct sunlight, pearlescent paint knocks spots off metallic finishes.

Many cars in Audi’s range are offered in pearlescent colours and similar metallic shades – compare one of their pearl black cars with a metallic black one in real life, and you’ll see a real difference in the depth and shimmer."
See more at: https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/car-paint ... 2k6bn.dpuf

[bodge]

whether its a pearlescent or not a32 bleu met (metallazzato mica according to the lechler list) is listed as first used on the cruiser 52-54 then again on the 250 monza 66-68

ducati cruiser duc a32.jpg

i believe this is a cruiser with what looks like it could be original paint

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Ventodue ...
" I suspect that "mica" is used here as an abbreviation of 'MICALIZZATA', a term used to describe a paint that contains particles of mica, a glittery mineral used "

____ Well that certainly makes [b]good[/b]-sense !
I had (apparently wrongly) assumed that the designation "mica" was an Italian-word for 'micro', based on the fact that the particles in the mica-paint was so obviously finer than the particles within metallic-paint.
Also I never knew what the actual particle-material was in ether paint-type, but if I had ever been told that the mica-paint actually contained crushed/powdered-glass and that metallic-paint contained merely-fine chrome-particles, I would've accepted that tale as being quite-likely true (since the mica-paint is quite-notably obviously less sparklely than metallic-paint !).


[quote][i]"Wet-ground mica, which retains the brilliancy of its cleavage faces, is used primarily in pearlescent paints by the automotive industry".[/i][/quote]____ I guess I have-to accept this as true,, but I don't understand how mica-particles could be alternately shaped so as to result with the separate finish-outcomes of both 'pearlescent' [b]and[/b] [i]micro-metallic[/i]/'mica-paint' finish-types, as those two obviously different appearing paint-finishes are hardly at all much alike !
Could it so-simply really be that "Wet-ground" mica is the sole cause for the pearlescent/sunshine-[b]glow[/b] of pearlescent-paint,, while mere crushed-mica type paint rather exhibits drastically-little, if anything at-all of the kind ?



" I, like Bob, yet wonder whether the use of mica paints on our bikes would be anachronistic - even if
some pearlescent automotive finishes date from the '60s. "

____ It seems we may have-to accept what Bruce has indicated... that mica-paint is also considered as a pearlescent-paint.
But like so damned-many other things in this world of ignorance to specific-detail, there then must be (at-least) [b]two[/b] clearly distinguishable types of paint-finish which are both allowed to be referred-to as 'pearlescent' !


[quote][i]"Pearlescent paints replace the metal particles with ceramic crystals (often called “mica”) that don’t just reflect light but refract it too, splitting it into different colours by allowing some light in and slowing it down as it passes through. This gives the paint not just a sparkle, but a deep colour that can vary depending on how you look at it, making for interesting effects where the car’s bodywork creases or changes direction. In direct sunlight, pearlescent paint knocks spots off metallic finishes.[/i][/quote]____ [b]This[/b] is a very-good description of what I-myself accept as being TRUE [b]actual[/b]-pealescent paint-finish ! _ (Which I had never seen the likes-of before the '70s !)
And [b]this[/b] [i]real[/i]-type of pearlescent/mica paint-finish was [b]never[/b] used on any factory-stock Duke-model ([b]I've[/b] ever seen) !
Exactly how "ceramic crystals" likely vary from [b]real[/b] 'mica' particles, must be the underlying cause that's actually responsible for the [b]obvious[/b] difference between [b]real[/b] 'pearlescent' and real 'mica' type paint-finishes !
__ Whatever the 'ceramic crystals' actually are,, I've figured that such an added ingredient that's actually responsible for the [b]unique[/b] pearlescent-[i]shine[/i] (with it's cast-out rainbow-glow effect), could likely be caused (at-least in part) by glass micro-spheres, since sphere-shaped water-mist similarly causes rainbows in sunlight.
__ In any case, the bottom-line conclusion must be that real/true 'pearlescent' paint-finish can't possibly be the very-same as 'mica' paint-finish, [b]quite OBVIOUSLY[/b] !


Enlightened-Cheers,
-Bob

[u][b]NOTE[/b]... There must be a bug in the new updated-software that Jim had done, as [b]none[/b] of the button-options are (currently) working for this post ! [/u]

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= bodge ...
" whether its a pearlescent or not a32 bleu met (metallazzato mica according to the lechler list) is listed as first used on the cruiser 52-54 then again on the 250 monza 66-68 "

____ Those types who really don't much care about establishing & maintaining decisive attention to detail-specifics, may loosely throw-around the use of the term 'pearlescent' randomly in place of 'mica',, but true-pearlescent (or whatever it ought really be named/called*), is a more modern paint-finish that was never factory-applied to any Duke-model (at-least before the '70s !). _ (* The paint name-designation 'pearlescent' is actually a very applicable name-title for the paint-finish it describes !)
To probably more clarify what Bruce had quite-possibly more-likely actually meant to professly-purport,, is that 'mica' and 'pearlesque' (rather than 'pearlescent') are both paint-designations for referencing pretty-much the same essentially-identical paint-type.
I've also seen 'pearlesque' type paint-finish,, and it indeed does appear very-much like micro-metallic/mica type paint-finish, except that pearlesque seems to appear slightly more chalky than the mica-type paint (but-yet both versions could be passed-off as the other, since the difference is-not too awfully obvious).
But the difference between 'pearlesque' and 'pearlescent' is quite surely much more obvious, especially when viewed in sunlight, (as only pearlescent-finish includes it's highly-unique prism-effect florescent-glow) !
Apparently there's general confusion between the two designation-names. _ The pearlesque-type must be the version which contains "wet-ground mica", while the pearlescent-type is the only pearl-version which includes "ceramic crystals".
(Hopefully Bruce will self-clarify himself as to whether he had indeed really meant "pearlescent" or rather actually meant 'pearlesque', [had he've thought of both designation-names at the time of his chosen-wording].)
__ Anyhow however,, I know the stock square-style Monza/Sebring-models were indeed endowed with micro-metallic like 'mica' paint-finish, (which did-not exhibit any type of color-glowing effect like REAL-pearlescent paint-finish obviously does) !


Detailing-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[DewCatTea-Bob]

SPECIAL/Note-explanation for this rather-correctly presented post-duplicate... This post reproduction-version of my original post version (seen two posts above) is how the original-version should've appeared (had a flaw-bug not screwed it up).
I don't know why the suspected bug didn't also copy-over & do-same on this exact-duplicate which should've also transferred any error/mistake over-to this reproduction-version as well !
I only found-out that it didn't do-so when I decided to try&see whether the bug-issue would still remain if I copied an exact-same reproduction of my entire/complete post to be re-presented in another (duplicate) post,, and to my delighted-surprise, the bug-issue was-not also copied-over along-with !
Amongst other sample test-tail wordings, I also tried replacing every last single letter in that spook-bugged post and in-place tried posting merely-just a bold-ized 'x' instead, but it too was also malfunctioning !
So it's quite conclusive that that-post was hit by a bug-glitch for some unknown reason !
__ (I wonder what other bug-glitches are apt to turn-up as a result of the update Jim had installed !?)







[quote= Ventodue ...
" I suspect that "mica" is used here as an abbreviation of 'MICALIZZATA', a term used to describe a paint that contains particles of mica, a glittery mineral used "

____ Well that certainly makes good-sense !
I had (apparently wrongly) assumed that the designation "mica" was an Italian-word for 'micro', based on the fact that the particles in the mica-paint was so obviously finer than the particles within metallic-paint.
Also I never knew what the actual particle-material was in ether paint-type, but if I had ever been told that the mica-paint actually contained crushed/powdered-glass and that metallic-paint contained merely-fine chrome-particles, I would've accepted that tale as being quite-likely true (since the mica-paint is quite-notably obviously less sparklely than metallic-paint !).

"Wet-ground mica, which retains the brilliancy of its cleavage faces, is used primarily in pearlescent paints by the automotive industry".

____ I guess I have-to accept this as true,, but I don't understand how mica-particles could be alternately shaped so as to result with the separate finish-outcomes of both 'pearlescent' and micro-metallic/'mica-paint' finish-types, as those two obviously different appearing paint-finishes are hardly at all much alike !
Could it so-simply really be that "Wet-ground" mica is the sole cause for the pearlescent/sunshine-glow of pearlescent-paint,, while mere crushed-mica type paint rather exhibits drastically-little, if anything at-all of the kind ?



" I, like Bob, yet wonder whether the use of mica paints on our bikes would be anachronistic - even if
some pearlescent automotive finishes date from the '60s. "

____ It seems we may have-to accept what Bruce has indicated... that mica-paint is also considered as a pearlescent-paint.
But like so damned-many other things in this world of ignorance to specific-detail, there then must be (at-least) two clearly distinguishable types of paint-finish which are both allowed to be referred-to as 'pearlescent' !

"Pearlescent paints replace the metal particles with ceramic crystals (often called “mica”) that don’t just reflect light but refract it too, splitting it into different colours by allowing some light in and slowing it down as it passes through. This gives the paint not just a sparkle, but a deep colour that can vary depending on how you look at it, making for interesting effects where the car’s bodywork creases or changes direction. In direct sunlight, pearlescent paint knocks spots off metallic finishes.

____ This is a very-good description of what I-myself accept as being TRUE actual-pealescent paint-finish ! _ (Which I had never seen the likes-of before the '70s !)
And this real-type of pearlescent/mica paint-finish was never used on any factory-stock Duke-model (I've ever seen) !
Exactly how "ceramic crystals" likely vary from real 'mica' particles, must be the underlying cause that's actually responsible for the obvious difference between real 'pearlescent' and real 'mica' type paint-finishes !
__ Whatever the 'ceramic crystals' actually are,, I've figured that such an added ingredient that's actually responsible for the unique pearlescent-shine (with it's cast-out rainbow-glow effect), could likely be caused (at-least in part) by glass micro-spheres, since sphere-shaped water-mist similarly causes rainbows in sunlight.
__ In any case, the bottom-line conclusion must be that real/true 'pearlescent' paint-finish can't possibly be the very-same as 'mica' paint-finish, quite OBVIOUSLY !


Enlightened-Cheers,
-Bob

NOTE... There must be a bug in the new updated-software that Jim had done, as none of the button-options are (currently) working for this post ! DISREGARD this part of the copy