73 350 scrambler electrical problems HELP!

[Justinsch2444]

Bob,

Sorry for the ignition/key switch confusion.

When I mean by the components have "power" is that I can read a voltage in the key-off position at all the components BUT nothing lights up. In the key-on, I cannot read any voltages, not even across the battery. I cannot start the bike in the key-off position, only in the key-on position. Also, I purchased the bike in the current electrical status and the previous owner just said the lights do not work (he only had it for a year or so and didn't ride it). Last on road in 93 according to the inspection.

Justin

[Nick]

Maybe just remove all the stock stuff, stash it away somewhere and wire up a simplified system using a couple of toggle switches. Use a modern electronic rectifier to charge the battery. Use one toggle switch for front and rear lights, another for ignition. Put a fuse in each one. Good to go.

Keep the stock components in case you (or a future owner) want to restore the original system to all its (dubious) glory.

[DewCatTea-Bob]

____ Well Justin, it seems you had submitted your post (on this new page) whilst I was continuing to work on getting my last post completed.
Some of what you've brought-up (on this thread-page) has finally been touched-on within my previous post (found at the bottom of the previous-page). _ So if you go-back and read-through my finally-completed previous post,, then you ought to develop a sensible notion of what the bottom-line most-likely is, concerning your standing issue.



[quote= Justinsch2444 ...
" Sorry for the ignition/key switch confusion. "

____ That's nothing to be sorry about...
As you're in the company of the majority of members who hastily type their post-wording without much consideration as to how their presented wording may probably be rather misinterpreted as.
(It's rather the lack of answering the questions of all those trying to help you, that your ought rather be sorry for.)



" When I mean by the components have "power" is that I can read a voltage in the key-off position at all the components BUT nothing lights up. "

____ Since it's been deduced that your key-switch's circuit-wiring may possibly be connected-up bASS-aKWARDS (with the dual switch-circuits rather reversed), it thus-then makes logical-sense that the load-components can't power-up when the key is set to it's ON-position.
However due-to your lack of answering my questions, I'm STILL left to guess-at what the actual cause of your particular issue might really be due-to !
__ While the seemingly strange circumstance you've pointed-out seems absurdly-crazy, (providing that all your lights aren't burnt-out),, with the key-switch switched to it's off-position, it actually makes a bit of reasonable sense that the battery's voltage-level can be found at the load-components and-yet without them powering-up, since they really can't be expected to power-up without a completed ground-circuit (which is only provided through the key-switch just when the switch allows the battery to become grounded !).



" In the key-on, I cannot read any voltages, not even across the battery. "

____ I'm wondering exactly where you choose to connect-up your meter-leads !?
You better just go-ahead and follow my instructions (given in my previous post) before you possibly burn-up something.



" I cannot start the bike in the key-off position, only in the key-on position. "

____ This revelation of-course indicates that the ign.circuit is effectively connected to the actual correct switch-circuit that's intended to kill the ignition when the key-switch is switched to it's intended OFF-position.
So this fact now counters the notion that the key-switch's wiring is connected-up bASS-aCKWARDS !
So this condition would indicate that only the ground-circuit of the key-switch's battery/load-circuit remains suspect. _ So you may prefer to just check that wire-circuit between the key-switch & ground to make-sure it's properly conducting (before bothering to completely reconnect all the switch-wiring, as I previously advised).



" I purchased the bike in the current electrical status and the previous owner just said the lights do not work "

____ I actually believe that Justin, (I was just literally-teasing before when I pointed-out that you had left me to surmise otherwise).



____ Please let us know of the outcome, after you've investigated the battery's ground-circuit* wiring-connection status, (* between the key-switch & ground).


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[Justinsch2444]

Bob,

Thanks again for the responses, I THINK I'm understanding the key-switch functions but I won't lie my head spun a few times looking at the diagram. I'm currently working in the daylight, I did note that the right and bottom connection on the key-switch are linked with a small connector.

Here's what I just tested on the key-switch (all connection with ref. to the picture, looking at the back of key-switch):

IMAG0650.jpg

Key-switch leads connected, key off position and removed:
-right and bottom leads have continuity with bike.
-top connection does not have continuity with the bike.

Key-switch leads DIS-connected, key off position and removed:
-Left and right connections have continuity (beep on multimeter) with each other ONLY.
-top and bottom DO NOT have continuity with each other NOR with any other connections.
-lead (now disconnected) on key-switch has continuity with bike

SO I'm assuming there is an open circuit between the top and bottom connections in the key-switch, based from my understanding from you previous post. Where do I go from here or what else is needed to test?

Thanks,
Justin

IMAG0622_1.jpg

IMAG0623_1.jpg

IMAG0646_1.jpg

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Justinsch2444 ...
" I did note that the right and bottom connection on the key-switch are linked with a small connector. "

____ That would be the jumper-circuit indicated as the white-wire seen connected to two of the terminals on the key-switch diagram. _ (I had expectations that that jumper was missing, [to explain your issue].)
If it's connections are good, then it allows both switch-circuits to connect to ground (whenever either circuit needs to be grounded).



" (all connection with ref. to the picture, looking at the back of key-switch): "

____ That's quite adequate enough, as we can clearly see the 'left' & 'top' & 'right' terminals and simply realize that the 'bottom' terminal is located behind the 'top' one.



" Key-switch leads connected, key off position and removed:
-right and bottom leads have continuity with bike. "

____ Assuming you carefully chose the word "leads", I'm led to believe that there's an unseen wire-lead connected to the bottom-terminal !?
However with the jumper in place, the lead seen connected to the right-terminal ought be the only required wire-connection to ground.


" -top connection does not have continuity with the bike. "

____ I assume that top-terminal's wire-lead connects to the battery's neg.output-post ?



" Key-switch leads DIS-connected, key off position and removed:
-Left and right connections have continuity
with each other ONLY. "

____ With supposedly nothing left connected-up, I gather you actually mean that those two terminals -("connections") are defaultly connected together.
With that relevant-fact finally established, we now know that the 'left' & 'right' terminals are of the switch-circuit that's intended for grounding-out -(killing) the ignition ! _ (And therefore can deduce that the 'top' & 'bottom' terminals must be for the other switch-circuit that's intended for grounding the battery !)


" -top and bottom DO NOT have continuity with each other NOR with any other connections. "

____ And that's just as it should be when the key-switch is set to it's OFF-position ! _ Cuz when the key-switch is turned-off, the battery then needs to be disconnected from ground so that none of the battery-powered load-components can function, (as is to be expected with the key removed) !


" -lead (now disconnected) on key-switch has continuity with bike "

____ Then that particular wire-lead must be the wire-connection that's grounded, (as seen in the diagram below).
And-so it must serve both grounding functions for each of the two separate key-switch circuits.



" SO I'm assuming there is an open circuit between the top and bottom connections in the key-switch, "

____ Correct,, just as there should-be expected to, when the key-switch is turned-off !
However when you turn-on the key-switch, then the switch-circuit between the 'top' & 'bottom' terminals should then become a 'closed-circuit' and-thus connect those two terminals to one another (so that the battery becomes grounded [so the load-components can then function]) !
So you also need to confirm whether that internal connection is actually able to be completed (when the key is set to an ON-position) !



" Where do I go from here or what else is needed to test? "

____ Since it's (thus-far) seeming that the key-switch circuitry is turning-out as it's supposed-to,, we next need to take the key-switch entirely out-of-the-picture and hot-wire the battery/load circuit to determine whether the load-components can then function as they should.
So rather directly ground the battery's neg.post and then try-out all the loads, (not just the head & tail lights !), and report-back what-all happens.
(I don't think you've ever-yet made it very clear whether you only have function-issues with just merely the lights alone, or all the loads [including the brake-light & horn as well]. _ So you still need to finally clear-up that question too !)

____ Looking-forward to whatever you have to report next !


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob

[Justinsch2444]

Bob,

To clarify, the top terminal on the key-switch IS connected to battery ground. Also, when the key-switch is turned ON, now the top and bottom terminals have continuity. Just for a sanity check this morning before work, I re-checked all of the key-switch ground leads (wires) to make sure everything has continuity and they do.

Also to clarify nothing worked before (headlight, brake light, horn) in the ON position with the bike running or not running. To throw a wrench in this whole situation, a friend (when I was riding up and down the alley) just mentioned yesterday that while it was running the headlight was flickering a bit(assuming it wasn't some kind of reflection). But anyways, I'll power the headlight, brake light, horn on lunch today and see what the deal is. Thanks!

Justin

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Justinsch2444 ...
" To clarify, the top terminal on the key-switch IS connected to battery ground. Also, when the key-switch is turned ON, now the top and bottom terminals have continuity. "

____ To clarify, when you say "battery ground", I assume you probably meant to specifically indicate the battery's neg.post (and not-only it's present ground-lead, [which is on the suspect-list]).
__ Thanks for confirming these normally-expected conditions, (although there was some suspicion that one or the other was-not actually accomplishing it's intended electrical-connection properly).



" I re-checked all of the key-switch ground leads (wires) to make sure everything has continuity and they do. "

____ Well then it seems I was wrong to suspect that the oddball key-switch was reconnected-up incorrectly by someone used-to std.type key-switches.
But I still think a test-trial should be tried with those suspectable components taken out of the picture,, cuz while it's possible for a curtailed circuit-way to still be capable of conducting enough current to satisfy the relatively minuscule amount of signal-juice that's sufficient to fully activate a continuity-tester or volt-meter, one of the suspect circuits (including the key-switch's internal switch-circuit), may possibly no-longer be capable of handling enough amperage to be able to power-up any of the substantial current demanding system-loads.



" Also to clarify nothing worked before (headlight, brake light, horn) in the ON position with the bike running or not running. "

____ Then you had (apparently inadvertently) mislead us previously-before, when you originally seemed to've indicated that it was just the main-lighting alone that was failing to function.
(When ya place a post for assistance, it's helpful to not skimp on ya'r post-wording details.)
__ Your issue really ought-to be an easier problem to solve, when all the battery-system's loads fail to power-up !



" a friend (when I was riding up and down the alley) just mentioned yesterday that while it was running the headlight was flickering a bit "

____ This clue is indicative of a loose connection somewhere between the battery and the power-splitter prior to the fuse-array location, (or of-course within the main ground-circuit).
__ Have you yet tried-out my suggestion of using an independent jumper-wire directly-connected between the headlight and the battery's pos.post (so as to make-sure that battery & load work properly with whatever the-fault bypassed) ?
Cuz if for instance the tested load still doesn't power-up, then we'd know that the fault must exist on the ground-side of the power-circuit, (in which case we'd then next perform the same bypass-job [alternatively] on that-side as well [by substituting the stock bat.ground-circuit with a rather direct-connected jumper-wire]).



" I'll power the headlight, brake light, horn
and see what the deal is. "

____ That's what we're talken-bout !
As it's always good to know that the parts you're working with actually function independently !
____ Then after you've confirmed that the directly-grounded battery and tested load-components are really actually capable of properly functioning independently (from all the rest of the questionable parts & wiring), then try connecting your test/jumper-wire from the battery's pos.post directly to the fuse-array (to then discover whether your issue's fault has then become bypassed or not).
__ After you've reported the results you've found thus-far then,, I'll follow-up with further test-suggestions to try-out next, (assuming the completed test-steps possibly still haven't pinned-down the actual fault).


Hopeful-Cheers,
DCT-Bob

[Justinsch2444]

Hey Bob,

Sorry for a prolonged response, just returned from vaca in the Adirondacks!

So back to the issue...I took my battery off and charged it and also cleaned up some connections on the key switch, seemed a bit sketchy. After I put the battery back in, the lights came on!

Horn works, hi/lo headlight and tailight. There is a small issue, the front brake switch is faulty, as it's always "ON". If I unplug it, the rear brake switch functions correctly, but seems a bit touchy as well. Are these switches easily cleaned? I attempted to take it apart but didn't get too far, it seemed a bit hard to release than I would hope.

This was two days ago..during a ride home last night ALL the lights went out at once I haven't traced anything yet but I will after work. I hope it is just a connection problem and not a bad stator.

When the lights were working, I noticed the headlight is pretty dim! I always had the high beam on just so I was visible. Maybe a new, brighter bulb will help. The tailight seemed like an OK brightness when using the rear brake.

Thanks for all the help!
Justin

[DewCatTea-Bob]

[quote= Justinsch2444 ...
" Sorry for a prolonged response, "

____ So now that's your possible loss, as I no-longer remember what I had intended to have you check next.
Maybe if you'd provided any answers to anything that was last covered, then maybe I'd recall.



" the front brake switch is faulty, as it's always "ON".
the rear brake switch functions correctly, but seems a bit touchy as well. Are these switches easily cleaned? "

____ Cleaning shouldn't be the issue,, rather it seems that the material that keeps the contacts separated, has since lost it's anti-compression tension.



" during a ride home last night ALL the lights went out at once
I hope it is just a connection problem and not a bad stator. "

____ The alt.stator shouldn't have anything to do with it if the lights went-out suddenly rather than gradually dimming-out.
Probably your same previous issue has returned-back.
It seems fairly likely that one of the battery's cable-leads has developed an internal brakage which only makes intermediate connection at times.



" I noticed the headlight is pretty dim! "

____ Perhaps you have a 12v.bulb or it's not grounded well, (if both battery-cables are good as new).


Hopeful-Cheers,
-Bob